Anti-immigrant politics on the rise in Europe

That's a very good point... It is what we call in french la fuite en avant "fleeing forward".

I have a lot of study to do right now (something to hand in on Friday). But i'll get back to you after that

the proportion of immigrants in France is on par with other European nations such as the United Kingdom (8%)[18], Germany (9%)[19], the Netherlands (18%)[20], Sweden (13%)[21] and Switzerland (19%)[22]...

...In the first decade of the 21st century, the net migration rate was estimated to be 0.66 migrants per 1,000 population a year.[27] This is a very low rate of immigration compared to other European countries, the USA or Canada. Since the beginning of the 1990s, France has been attempting to curb immigration, first with the Pasqua laws, followed by both right-wing and socialist-issued laws. The immigration rate is currently lower than in other European countries such as United Kingdom and Spain;...

Isn't France also facing a demographic timebomb? AFAIK, you have an aging population with a low birth rate and without immigration you wont be able to pay pensions in the future (hence the increase of the pension age).

Money is free to move around the world, but people aren't. Sums it up really IMO.

Sums it up really IMO.

It does?

you have an aging population with a low birth rate

"With a total fertility rate of 2.02 (in 2008 ),[1] France is the most fertile country in the European Union"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France

"In absolute terms, Germany had by far the largest foreign-born population (10.1 million), followed by France (6.4 million), the UK (5.8 million), Spain (4.8 million), Italy (2.5 million), Switzerland (1.7 million), and the Netherlands (1.6 million)"

http://www.migrationinformation.org/USFo...cfm?ID=402

"With a total fertility rate of 2.02 (in 2008 ),[1] France is the most fertile country in the European Union"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France?

That figure was from 2007. You are now behind Ireland, level with Spain, and marginally higher than the UK and Holland.

The rest of Europe has the same problem.

"In absolute terms, Germany had by far the largest foreign-born population (10.1 million), followed by France (6.4 million), the UK (5.8 million), Spain (4.8 million), Italy (2.5 million), Switzerland (1.7 million), and the Netherlands (1.6 million)"

http://www.migrationinformation.org/USFo...cfm?ID=402

Im not claiming to be an expert on French immigration, but if that is true how can this also be true?

As of 2006, the French national institute of statistics INSEE estimated that 4.9 million foreign-born immigrants live in France (8% of the country's population

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration...d_War_II_2

I suspect it might be difficult to get reliable numbers, but even if your figures are correct, that still only means that France is about average for Europe at about 10%.

And at the risk of seeming even more obnoxious - if a nation - any nation - doesn't want high immigration then they should probably restrain from invading, colonising, enslaving and exploiting other countries for centuries, stealing their natural wealth and enforcing their language, culture and religions on them.

Its a sure recipe for trouble in the future...

yeah getting reliable number is tricky alright. I just feel for my country man.

Maybe this video will tell better what I feel. Just wait till the moment where the woman is getting undressed. I am far from a racist, but seeing that kind of things ( and having experienced it myself ), fills me sometimes by an overtaking feeling of rage, which I try to control and resonnate.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=63c_1285702480

yeah getting reliable number is tricky alright. I just feel for my country man.

Maybe this video will tell better what I feel. Just wait till the moment where the woman is getting undressed. I am far from a racist, but seeing that kind of things ( and having experienced it myself ), fills me sometimes by an overtaking feeling of rage, which I try to control and resonnate.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=63c_1285702480

Im not sure what Im supposed to be seeing here. Some black kids running around a crowd assaulting people? Sure, it sucks, but what does it have to do with immigration? I've seen videos of saturday night in large cities in the UK, or Dutch football hooligans which are far worse - does it mean that all Dutch or English people are bad?

Dont get sucked into the 'them and us' mindsets. There is no 'they'. People are individuals. You cant generalise about race. Class and income are much greater factors in behaviour.

And at the risk of seeming even more obnoxious - if a nation - any nation - doesn't want high immigration then they should probably restrain from invading, colonising, enslaving and exploiting other countries for centuries, stealing their natural wealth and enforcing their language, culture and religions on them.

Its a sure recipe for trouble in the future...

That is totally true.

But Algeria got its independance in 1962! Almost 50 years man! More than the time needed to build, developp, and Establish economic growth. But no, governments in Africa stay corrupted. And Men like Mandela, Kofi Annan, or Atatürk are not to be found in every corner.

Dont get sucked into the 'them and us' mindsets. There is no 'they'. People are individuals. You cant generalise about race. Class and income are much greater factors in behaviour.

That is something one should never loose from sight, true.

I gotta go study, I'll be back later , Nice one for the small chat Droid!

Big up.

And at the risk of seeming even more obnoxious - if a nation - any nation - doesn't want high immigration then they should probably restrain from invading, colonising, enslaving and exploiting other countries for centuries, stealing their natural wealth and enforcing their language, culture and religions on them.

Its a sure recipe for trouble in the future...

That is totally true.

But Algeria got its independance in 1962! Almost 50 years man! More than the time needed to build, developp, and Establish economic growth. But no, governments in Africa stay corrupted. And Men like Mandela, Kofi Annan, or Atatürk are not to be found in every corner.

One more small point - 50 years is nothing. Ireland has been independent for nearly 100 years, and we've probably been one of the most successful post colonial nations in the world thanks to EU investment - and even so, the cultural and psychological legacy of colonisation is immense (we only got electricity to every house by 1970's!), not to mention the political and economic ravages caused by the civil wars Algeria has suffered as a result of their initial war of independence.

Sums it up really IMO.

It does?

Sure. We in the West want access to the rest of the World's markets and resources. But we don't want the people who make up those markets and who provide those resources to dare ask for anything more than a limited slice of the pie. So we make sure that money can travel anywhere with no restrictions - but people cannot.

Sure. We in the West want access to the rest of the World's markets and resources. But we don't want the people who make up those markets and who provide those resources to dare ask for anything more than a limited slice of the pie. So we make sure that money can travel anywhere with no restrictions - but people cannot.

:P

Ok, I know what colonialisation means, but recent history sort of showed that the demographic change asks for a different approach, doesn't it?

Also, the permanent additions of not-so-rich countries to the EU sort of contradicts that...

Sure. We in the West want access to the rest of the World's markets and resources. But we don't want the people who make up those markets and who provide those resources to dare ask for anything more than a limited slice of the pie. So we make sure that money can travel anywhere with no restrictions - but people cannot.

:P

Ok, I know what colonialisation means, but recent history sort of showed that the demographic change asks for a different approach, doesn't it?

Also, the permanent additions of not-so-rich countries to the EU sort of contradicts that...

And you could say that it was precisely this that brought on the current crisis - immigration within the EU. AFAIK EU immigrants make up a large chunk (of immigrants) in nearly every country in the EU.