Using guitar pedals as insert / aux (line level) devices

I'm seriously considering going the guitar pedal route when it comes to analog delay, chorus, phaser etc..

I was wondering, am I going to overload them too much? I like to drive my signals quite a bit in the mixer and as we all know, with guitars the signal level is considerably lower. I know all pedals can't handle hot levels very well.

I'm currently considering spending some of my hard earned cash on a Diamond Memory Lane analog delay (BBD) pedal and although they say it has "analog voltage supply internally regulated to 15V for low noise operation and increased headroom in line level effect loops", I'm having some doubts because even only mildly overdriven signals delayed with a lot of feedback can often yield unwanted distortion in the signal path with some fx devices.

Share your thoughts!

i tried this once and maybe my pedals were old or something but the sound quality seemed to really suck! be interested to know others experience as well.

I've tried some pedals aswell.. the latest was a Homebrew Electronics Psilocybe Phaser (owned by a guitarist friend) which sounded really really nice and silky but was a bit too easily overdriven

[Macc]

Share your thoughts!

My thoughts;

Post this in the studio forum

[Statto]

Create feedback loops with your pedals in order to have a lot of fun

yes, get a small analog desk and use them on sends or inline for dub style mixing fun!

My bro once put a vocal through a wah pedal! It sounded good!

You need to at least try one of these:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--LINPODXTLIVE

Reading the specs, apparently they have a solution for the high gain problem as well.

[Macc]

It's true that the levels are a bit soft and you'd need to get some extra gain out them somewhere along the 'line' (hoho).

The only problem with wanging up the return/channel in your mixer is that most of these pedals have pretty average signal to noise ratios, so you'll be introducing a lot of that into your mix. Obviously the more pedals you use the worse it gets, and from the music I have heard from you dak ( ), that wouldn't suit your sound at all (IMHO!).

One not-very-good workaround would be to use the pedal at unity gain, ie, keeping the level as hot as possible before clipping, bounce it all off and then use noise reduction and/or gating to keep it to a minimum. Far from ideal, but...


At the end of the day though, guitar pedals are made to be stomped on my rockers blaring through crap PA systems at pubs and skanky shithole venues around the world. That's why they are so cheap. Studio-quality units may or may not have that much more to offer in terms of the quality of the effect, but what they do generally offer is lower noise and better operating levels.

There's no real way around it - you get what you pay for

yes, get a small analog desk and use them on sends or inline for dub style mixing fun!

I've been doing that for years with my techno and ambient productions. Although not with guitar pedals but regular studio fx equipment and synths instead.

It's true that the levels are a bit soft and you'd need to get some extra gain out them somewhere along the 'line' (hoho).

The only problem with wanging up the return/channel in your mixer is that most of these pedals have pretty average signal to noise ratios, so you'll be introducing a lot of that into your mix. Obviously the more pedals you use the worse it gets, and from the music I have heard from you dak ( ), that wouldn't suit your sound at all (IMHO!).

One not-very-good workaround would be to use the pedal at unity gain, ie, keeping the level as hot as possible before clipping, bounce it all off and then use noise reduction and/or gating to keep it to a minimum. Far from ideal, but...


At the end of the day though, guitar pedals are made to be stomped on my rockers blaring through crap PA systems at pubs and skanky shithole venues around the world. That's why they are so cheap. Studio-quality units may or may not have that much more to offer in terms of the quality of the effect, but what they do generally offer is lower noise and better operating levels.

There's no real way around it - you get what you pay for

I'm not considering low budget pedals though. I don't buy cheap shit anymore, i'd rather buy one very good unit than a bunch of crap. And believe me, what you just said about pedals usage isn't true (at least not anymore). There are quite a few pedal companies making incredible equipment.

The Memory Lane pedal costs about 400 euros, its quite a price but who cares, it has just the functions i need and a bit more, and i've read only good things about it and the company (Diamond Guitar Pedals). I'm also considering their Halo Chorus (which is in fact a chorus / phaser) pedal, but maybe I'll be getting that later. That has gotten quite a bit of praise aswell, although it's been around for less than a year.

Of course I looked into the usual choice of Moogerfooger pedals aswell. But the delay pedal costs like 700 euros and I've read people saying it's a bit overhyped, not really worth all that money. And the delay doesn't have a tilt eq before the feedback path like the memory lane, which is for me a feature that puts the delay ahead of others.

And you're right, i can always use some sort of amplifying after the pedal if i have problems with the levels. I don't get the noise comment though, I've been using loads of noise in all my techno and ambient tracks. I'm currently working on incorporating a bit of that and the usual dubness in my d&b productions aswell... coming up :arrow:

[Macc]

I meant noise as in 'hiss' on other sounds, you know - where the sound/sample starts/stops and so does the noise . Not noise as an 'instrument' in itself, which you use very well from what I have heard.

I meant it as a compliment, your sound is very clean and clear (even the noise)

Is there any reason you'd buy a stomp box over a studio-oriented unit? You want to stomp on the bastard?

I meant noise as in 'hiss' on other sounds, you know - where the sound/sample starts/stops and so does the noise . Not noise as an 'instrument' in itself, which you use very well from what I have heard.

I meant it as a compliment, your sound is very clean and clear (even the noise)

Ok, i see your point. I'm not so concerned about the noise though, i hear the diamond pedals are pretty noiseless, or as noiseless as you can get with the BBD chips.

Btw thanks for the compliment

Is there any reason you'd buy a stomp box over a studio-oriented unit? You want to stomp on the bastard?

This is a very good question. I'm not looking to stomp on the unit really. My reasons:

1) There do not seem to be many (if any) analog delay units available in the studio range. Or at least not the kind that I'm looking for. As far as I know nobody apart from guitar pedal makers make BBD based analog delays these days. Please prove me wrong here!

2) I like pedals for the fact that they're so compact and hands on. I want to have my studio as tidy and hands on as possible.

3) I don't want a tape delay right now, too unreliable and needs too much maintenance.

I've been looking for second hand units aswell. It seems that the old studio oriented BBD delays have mostly < 300 ms delay time which is not enough for me (btw Fanu if you happen to read this let me know how much the max delay is in your Soundcraft unit).

[Macc]

Check out the Roland Space Echo pedal, just come out I think - heard it is pretty good

Check out the Roland Space Echo pedal, just come out I think - heard it is pretty good

it's digital

[Macc]

Yeeeessss, but it apparently a very convincing emulation :P

yeah it might very well be but im not too keen on the emulations

if i want a space echo i'll get the real thing but as it is, i'm currently looking for a bbd based analog echo

[Macc]

Just trying to help

What's yer budget, and how long a delay do you need? They are the key questions innit So far as I am aware *generally* getting longer delay times = more cost...

What about this?

Or (not BBD but looks SO good) this

[Macc]

Some good BBD-related reading here;

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/April...tent2.html

Just trying to help

What's yer budget, and how long a delay do you need? They are the key questions innit So far as I am aware *generally* getting longer delay times = more cost...

What about this?

Or (not BBD but looks SO good) this

yeah i know and i appreciate that

it's just that every time someone makes a thread about analog delays or asks for recommendations for analog delays there's always somebody piping about some digital emulations at one point or other

that fulltone echo looks definitely sweet but is completely out of my budget.. and i'm looking for something more compact, in fact i've almost made up my mind about the Diamond Memory Lane. It's just the way i'd like the delay to be, feature-wise.. It costs about 400 euros so I might need to gather some money first as I'm probably buying a new desk first (next week hopefully! studio master welcome..)

[Macc]

Good choice with the memory Lane - I've only seen ' ' when talking about that.

Samples samples samples or stfu!

now that we've gotten this far with this thread without pics of equipment, gotta correct that..

i want this (custom color ):



i've also drooled after their chorus / phaser pedal (was thinking of using one permanently as an aux effect in my desk, gotta love choice bits of chorus in the mixing process!):



and this here (topic besides) is the mixer i'm supposed to be getting next week (although it's the bigger custom built 24 track gold version:



Can't wait to get my hands on that baby!

[Macc]

yeah i've used those studiomasters a few times... can't remember where now though - a couple of places and it is bugging me

good desks though!

My bro once put a vocal through a wah pedal! It sounded good!

Run into pod2 to get the correct signal level. Also my sound card has a Hi-Z (Guitar/Bass) connection, and analogue limiter.

thanks goodness i've got the rocktron intellifex in the patch, enables me to take any stompbox/input level and give it any combination of output level, sometimes rack hardware really works better that way.. the Marshall pre with the output level switch is going into the rack too, when i can find another decent Marshall 100 watt head.