Hands off my tunes discussion.

Its my feeling that with modern technologies the way they are, there is really no reason why an artist cant do a tune start to finish including the mastering. Like the orchestral example in the other thread, with some of the vsts available nowadays it is possible to score and create each part.

Thoughts?

[Macc]

Yes it's possible. I do it myself. However, you can't do everything as well as the best in a given area.

Jack of all trades and that.

Isn't that quite a commercial attitude though, thats leaning towards the Mark Ronson doing entire tunes for a vocalist, making superstars type scenario. Its not for me, I wanna do the whole thing myself because i'm not the best in the feild at any part of making music.

If you start saying my mix downs arent tight enough I'll get someone else to do em, is that any different to saying my rythms arent interesting enough I'll get someone else to funk them up a bitor theres some key clashes in there ill get someone else to correct the notes?

macc is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

pay no attention to him what-so-ever!



peace

is that any different to saying my rythms arent interesting enough I'll get someone else to funk them up a bitor theres some key clashes in there ill get someone else to correct the notes?

Yes it is. I think you're being a tad pedantic :P

pedantic

He he, I dont know what that word means?

[Macc]

Isn't that quite a commercial attitude though, thats leaning towards the Mark Ronson doing entire tunes for a vocalist, making superstars type scenario. Its not for me, I wanna do the whole thing myself because i'm not the best in the feild at any part of making music.

I don't give a shit about anything but music. The Final Result Is King.

I also WANT to do it all myself. I want to play drums, trumpet, double bass, piano, record it, mix it and ALL that. However, I can't. I am also not so blinkered as to shut off other ways of achieving the best possible final result. Who knows, maybe using other people will make the result of my idea even better...

Real life examples;

If I write a tune for trumpet that is too difficult for me to play and I need it recorded, I'll email my mate Ko and get him to play it for me. It may be 15 years before my playing is good enough to do that. When I reach the level I am able to do it, I will, but in the meantime there are other ways to get the same result (and probably better). The song benefits.

When I come up with a guitar part I need but can't get 'that' guitar tone that's in my head, I email dodz (see my song Be Like Water).

Equally, say a song needs some great guitar playing that I simply can't do, but is of maximum benefit to the final result. Then I entrust someone with an infinitely greater level of skill in guitar playing (dodz again ) and KNOW that he understands what I need. He provides it. If I played on it because 'it has to be all me' it would be rubbish.

In all cases, Final Result >>>>>>>>>>> personal pride

It was my idea, it was my tune. I set the wheels in motion, it wouldn't exist without me, etc etc etc. Someone else being able to make my idea reality is a gift, a plus, A Good Thing. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened, or the final result would be weaker - all because of some silly notion that if I didn't do absolutely everything, it isn't my music.

If you start saying my mix downs arent tight enough I'll get someone else to do em, is that any different to saying my rythms arent interesting enough I'll get someone else to funk them up a bitor theres some key clashes in there ill get someone else to correct the notes?

It's entirely different. Without trying to be patronising (but probably succeeding), you are one of the 'new breed' who have been blessed with the ability to make music AND mix it. So the two quite easily become blurred as being part of the same process.

Mixing does NOT equal music.

I don't mean effects or creative tools or anything like that. I mean making it sound good so that the musical/artistic content is heard as 'easily' as possible, as best possible. If one's mixdowns are shit and then one does shoddy mastering on it because 'you must do it all yourself'


I'm going to try and find a great post I read recently on the UAD forum...

very good post macc


i concur with your thoughts, however i havent made music properly for over 10 years now.

me and my studio partner never mixed ur own tunes down

just got pete parsons to do it instead!

ask buzzby about my old tunes.

really gotta play them again

peace

No hold on a sec Macc, your talking about collaborations and writing parts for bands. They are what they are.

I'm talking about producing a dnb/IDM/electronic tune. I consider myself adequate at both production and engineering and want to practice both. If everyone was getting other people to do stuff they did wanna be doing coz theres someone out there thats better than them then thered only be one person in the world carrying out each disciplin

If people do want to get mixdowns done its not crime of the century, fair play to them. Just being ambitios is a good thing imo. And I dont agree that the final product being more important than the process of making it is a healthy attitude to take when writing a tune.

Its an art form its about expression, not about who can make the nicest sounding song with the best techniques. I'm not a hippy btw

i can drink beer & vomit at the same time

Engineering is an art unto itself. Its a totally different thing from writing or producing.

You might think something sounds great in your home studio, but you have to take into account the vagaries of the format that you intend your tunes to finally end up on. Even if your aim is simply to reproduce your studio sound that would involve totally different mixdowns for vinyl and CD, and it takes experience and trial and error to produce a master that gives you the sound reproduction that you want.

You should think of it as a translation of a finished piece rather than an interference with the creative process.

Also - no mater how good you think your engineering is, youre still gonna have to hand over to someone else if you ever want them to get onto vinyl.

well i dont see much problems with collabs, i think you generally get better ideas with another set of eyes/ears. as for production, i used to produce my own music a few years ago and have always had better results with mates helping out where your expertise may not be up to par. for example, where i needed a guitar solo that i heard in my head but couldnt quite pull off eloquently, id call up someone to record it with me (plus his guitar tone was so much sweeter than what i was playing on lol).

as for djing, i stick by my original post, only to add that i used to have a mate of mine tweak out the final mix and nice it up in post production to make it sound phatter ya gets me.


to me, its ALL ABOUT THE FINAL PRODUCT! music, whether it be production or mixing or live, is all about making the listener feel exactly how you did when you concieved what you wrote!


is all, great discussion. oh, i can fart on que!

I have vinyls that sound awefull in terms of mixdown. I know of vinyl houses that offer OPTIONAL additional engineering. Yall seem to think theres a set of ironcast rules to making music. Heres news for u, music is art, there are no rules.

That is all.

Yall seem to think theres a set of ironcast rules to making music. Heres news for u, music is art, there are no rules.

Sure.

Sound, however, is a Science.

just got pete parsons to do it instead!

wish i had one o' them handy

Sure.

Sound, however, is a Science.

lol, just admit i'm right

A painter has the freedom not to take his painting to some sort of light scientist type person for sprucing up, in the same way a musician has the option to go to a vinyl house and refuse the mastering or press the vinyls on one of those crap home vinyl machines.

Now if i feel my choons are adequately mixed down and i don't want Macc touching then thats my fookin choice, enough of the standard practice lectures.

Its standard practice to have to take a shit almost every day, doesn't make it good.

Ha ha

lol, just admit i'm right

A painter has the freedom not to take his painting to some sort of light scientist type person for sprucing up, in the same way a musician has the option to go to a vinyl house and refuse the mastering or press the vinyls on one of those crap home vinyl machines.

Now if i feel my choons are adequately mixed down and i don't want Macc touching then thats my fookin choice, enough of the standard practice lectures.

Its standard practice to have to take a shit almost every day, doesn't make it good.

Ha ha

No-one's telling you what to do with your music, lad. Record it in a toilet and then rub it on a dead cat if you want - it's up to you.

But whether you like it or not, there is a science to working with sound - with recording, mixing and mastering. Refusing to even acknowledge that there might be other people more learned in that science seems pretty silly to me. :P

lol, just admit i'm right

Sure.

Sound, however, is a Science.

A painter has the freedom not to take his painting to some sort of light scientist type person for sprucing up, in the same way a musician has the option to go to a vinyl house and refuse the mastering or press the vinyls on one of those crap home vinyl machines.

Youre missing the point. If a painter wants his work reproduced he has to go to a printer and designer to make sure the printed version looks the best it can when printed (which is a totally different process).

You cant refuse mastering for vinyl - its impossible. maybe you can press up a dubplate for your own use, but you cant reproduce a dubplate.

Unless you have a lathe yourself you cant press onto vinyl without a cutting engineer, Simple as.

You guys arent reading my posts. You keep arguing against my points with points that ive already made myself. And what started this whole thing was macc saying would u be interested. The answers no. I am an artiste, nayone touches my mixdowns ya hear(unless i'm doing a collab or have blessed someone with the priveledge of doing some work on a tune of mine). Live with it and stop bitching and whinning and nagging and moaning about how its standard practice to have some chump who thinks he has an ear for music take every single tune and play around with the eqs and stuff before it goes to pressing. For £100s of pounds i might add, even if its not necessary. & I have come accross vinyl houses that the mastering is optional, so obviously it is possible to get them pressed without it. Even if its a possibility that the vinyls might get screwed up as a result

Check mate!

You guys arent reading my posts. You keep arguing against my points with points that ive already made myself. And what started this whole thing was macc saying would u be interested. The answers no. I am an artiste, nayone touches my mixdowns ya hear(unless i'm doing a collab or have blessed someone with the priveledge of doing some work on a tune of mine). Live with it and stop bitching and whinning and nagging and moaning about how its standard practice to have some chump who thinks he has an ear for music take every single tune and play around with the eqs and stuff before it goes to pressing. For £100s of pounds i might add, even if its not necessary. & I have come accross vinyl houses that the mastering is optional, so obviously it is possible to get them pressed without it. Even if its a possibility that the vinyls might get screwed up as a result

Check mate!

no

Just out of curiosity: how many records have you released? :P

um...i don't get it

no one will touch your tune unless you want them to, right?

so whats the big deal here?

just do it yourself if you think its good enough then be happy with that

otherwise you have another route

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/view...hp?t=38448

have blessed someone with the priveledge of doing some work on a tune of mine

whoever you are, you're not that good

um...i don't get it

no one will touch your tune unless you want them to, right?

so whats the big deal here?

just do it yourself if you think its good enough then be happy with that

otherwise you have another route

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/view...hp?t=38448

Yes, thats all ive been saying all along. People keep arguing with me for some reason

Have i not been wording this right?