Open Letter to Mods asking for deletion of account

Below is my open letter asking for deletion of my account.

Others are probably not aware that Mark made a new account purely to follow the thread Roo posted about his new site going up. Fada again posted some twattish reply so Mark sent a warning PM to him and he was banned again - no warning, nothing. Just a total ban.

I mentioned a while ago a certain disatisfaction with certain voices on here being squashed a little too harshly and that I felt there to be too much of a clique and praise culture where praise may not necessarily be due and proper frank critique would be better.

anyway here it is...

Dear Statto

Please can you delete my account. I really don't feel comfortable having it active for all the reasons I have mentioned previously.

Yes it's an online community but rather than being a rich cosmopolitan place like London it is more like a Milton Keynes full of suburban people making suburban music. The people who are gravitating towards the site are now no longer the interesting vibrant people it once attracted and any that dare to start saying views that are 'viewful' or that different are squashed.

When I said this very same thing. There were people who agreed with what I said and you or someone came up and said it was just a load of history going on. It's not Statto. The site should just be left to breathe sometimes. It's like having kids - let them sort it out themselves and don't interfere.

I just don't understand why you come down so hard on Mark and don't apply your ;holier than thou no abuse crap' equally across the board. He made a new character to follow the thread which Roo had put up about his new site. He didn't even post. He did send a warning PM to Fada after Fada called him a twat. But then ban Fada as well as Mark as they did equal abuse - in fact Mark didn't abuse at all. It was Fada. Why is he not banned?

Mark's 'abuse' is normally in humour and also if a piece of music is crap then he says so. What is the problem with people hearing proper critique? His 'abuse' is only ever about the music and rarely personal - he only gets personal when extremely drunk and when pushed to the edge.

Fada takes offence probably because he's never produced a decent piece of music so maybe felt the rough end of Mark's critique a few times.

We have had lengthy discussions about whether both him and I are too 'elitest' (my words) I have little time for people trying to become 'designers' when clearly it is a waste of time for them to try to do so when they have no 'eye' or any talent whatsoever. Mark is similar with people with no 'ear' or discernable talent for music. He's allowed to be a grumpy opinionated git surely?

But no - it seems everyone has to be bland miss pissy knickers on here these days.

So through your inability to apply fair rules to all and ban Fada as well you have lost an award winning film teacher, an award winning designer and you lost Mark a long time ago. So the talent leaves and you're left with what? I'm sure you've noticed a lot of the more interesting/interested/talented people are also all gradually posting less and visiting the site less. It's dying Statto. Such a shame. Oh and in the meantime you keep Fada about who attacks without intelligence and without rhyme or reason and he has absolutely zero talent. I know I mention Fada but really he is just a metaphor for your users. There are too many Fadas.

Reading back over the reviews when Mark was running Streetbeats and the label was seen as at the forefront of cutting edge. What happened? The lot of you have just let your mediocrity kill it off slowly but surely. Mark may be harsh but he has an amazing ear and he will push people to make better music - that is surely partly what this site was about.

Anyway please delete my account - the last word from Mark and before you start to dismiss it because it's harsh and says what he thinks. You have to understand where he is coming from. All words do not have to be made to be pretty. There are times where strong feelings can be expressed and it is entirely appropriate to do so.


Dear Statto,

I would like you to give me the opportunity to return the money that you paid for my music a la the ZnO Albums.... you deserve them for free being the terrible whore that you are.

I Resent the day money passed our hands.

I Resent the day I gave Scope a chance.

Shame on you all.

I would like this to happen for peace of my mind.

I dont feel comfortable with you paying for my music.

Good luck with your spineless activities.

You know my email address, i will continue to hound you in every way I can until i can "pay you back"

As per my first realease on SC (a label I created)

SUCK!

fuck you Jon.

And mine:

Hi Jon

Could you please delete my account? I'm really not happy with the way things have gone with the board, especially after the Mods treated Mark. Surely that went against everything that SC was supposed to represent? The board is also going downhill rapidly and seems to avoid any coherent or decent debate regarding music and any other worthwhile discussions.

I don't want to be a part of a board that doesn't recognise what were its core values. something that always appealed to me, but alas they are no more. I came to this board because they shared common values and also were open minded to different opinions. Yes abuse has been shared by one and all, but it has never been malicious. If it had been derogatory to anyone then fair dos, But in these instances it has not been.

Yours in deletion

Andy

PS Fada.... WAKE THE FUCK UP

Meh

OMFG...tact is a great thing to have...

I pity the fools that don't have any.

Does this ever fucking end...?

With all these lame comebacks it's like Dallas... minus the fun, glamour and witty repartee from 'ol JR

Kontra Wrote:The board is also going downhill rapidly and seems to avoid any coherent or decent debate regarding music and any other worthwhile discussions.

I have to admit I've not seen much discussion of music other than nostalgia for the various branches of DnB/Jungle and the occasional person asking for pointers to examples of a particular genre. That said, here and there I've picked up a couple of things and I appreciate it. There is a lot of technical expertise on SC.

My own contributions don't exactly cover me in the glory of in-depth and insightful (as opposed to inciteful ) debate.

I'm going to cover a variety of inter-related topics here. Get the coffee out.
I may put some noses out of joint as for once I'm stepping out of my usual level of harmless posting.

Plunging in...

I appreciate this is preference and taste but I've held back on posting the following thoughts primarily because I don't want to cause offense. However, losing some of the variation that makes music *exciting* is a massive loss to me.

There are two types of music that get posted on SC, with extremely little variation:

1) DnB/Jungle/SomeRandomWordSubgenreOfDnB

2) Ambient

Or combinations of above.

Many of the postings seem to be a 7 minute 'song' comprised of a sustained note / minor chord lasting most of the duration and someone having hit the randomize function on their drum machine or what sounds like a monkey thats been fed acid and given a couple of drum sticks. Perhaps chopped up someone else's drum loops under said 7 minute sustain and recycled.

Don't get me wrong, here and there are some absolute gems and it would be wrong for anyone to expect to like everything they hear on a forum 100%. But my point is that a lot of it does get a bit samey quite fast. Highlights to date of the good things that come via SC to me have been things such as the Age of Outsiders and Ronin's Battledrums. That Wiking chap, Speak, too is starting to do some nice stuff that to my mind makes it worth watching what he's up to. (I mention these as obvious positive examples. Not being mentioned here is not intended as a slight on anyone and also this is not intended to imply that my opinion is lofty and weighty).

I might be about to be massively corrected but I was led to believe that SC was more than this and actively aiming to be greater. And yet, you can't pin it down to any single post, you can't pin it on any one person, but there's a definate air of "If it ain't DnB, it ain't for SC". (Please don't go quoting the various threads in General, I'm referring to original music posted by users of this forum and this doesn't include podcasts/mixes/radioshows. I'm talking only about original music posted up for people to listen to.)

The variation and willingness to experiment, even when one might seem foolish to peers is what music should be all about - not staying in the comfort zone where you know nobody will laugh at you for trying something different.

This may sound a bit odd, but I *like* hearing all the different things that creativity has to offer, even the things I don't like. I feel it pushes me to expand my own awareness of music. I also value that for all I have made somewhat facetious comments in a previous paragraph in this post, I don't want to do anything negative to affect anyone else's creativity.

Creativity is treasure. Nothing less than absolute treasure. We are all the sum of our influences with our own personal spice thrown in.

There does however seem to be a lot of recycling going on with SC as some people live in a nostalgia trip for their favourite DnB bands/era. If thats what some want to do, there's nothing wrong with that. I didn't think that was what SC was only about this but I now have this nagging doubt. It does rather seem that the stronger personalities / keyboard heroes (PC keyboard, not music keyboard) are pushing others away.

This does worry me a bit.

I was gutted when Zno left SC. He is one of the people that has ever posted on here in my time using these forums that does not worship at the altar of Amen and isn't afraid to experiment. I do feel if I'd been around when it happened I could have gripped him warmly by the throat and calmed him down. (Ultimately we're all responsible for our own behaviour so I don't beat myself up too much ) However, as mentioned, he was far from the only guilty party. The modding itself was fine in that he absolutely crossed the line during that time. However, so did several others who did not appear to receive any penalty or hounding from certain quarters. I personally found some of the peripheral snide behaviour quite unsettling and commented on it at the time. The whole episode made me quite uneasy because whether the SC admins are willing to admit it or not, it sends a definate signal to the rest of us that use these forums.

This is old ground. I wouldn't be revisiting it but it is directly on topic.

Before any keyboard heroes decide to answer with "If you don't like SC, don't use SC" then consider this: When you exclude someone, you actually exclude yourself. Personally, I would prefer to see SC flourish. There are some great peeps using these forums and I am always mindful that whatever else is said, the admins are not getting paid to run these forums.


I have seen many threads on wildly different niche music that has tickled this or that person. If I'm being honest I'm not always convinced that the poster genuinely loves that niche and might be playing an internet-cool game of "I can find more obscure music than you nyar nyar" but lets assume that the majority are genuine. Consider this then:

At time of typing I have not seen one person in the time I've been using these boards post any original music of their own that breaks out of the safety mould. That should be sending warning signals if nothing else does.
What is it about posting on SC that might make someone not want to post outre music? Some of the music is very good but subversive? No. Dangerous? No. Challenging? Not really. I think its a bit too cruel to call it suburban (but I did chuckle) but complacency in creativity is stagnation and repetition and largely that is what is posted on SC.

This is after all 'Subvert' Central, the very name implies a place for naughty people to ply their craft away from the mainstream. Nobody wants to post music if they're fairly sure it won't be well received or at least have a fighting chance of some kind of decent reception. This is the quiet death that SC has the potential to suffer. I'd prefer this didn't happen. And seriously, when's the last time you met a naughty person that was easy to manage?

There's a definate disparity between stated goal and actual intent here.

Perhaps its just my perception and I've misunderstood what SC is all about. I am happy to be corrected.

Just some food for thought.

There are so many classics in this thread already that I don't even know where to start - my quote-ometer is going crazy!

We have jazz musicans on here not posting their music?


... sorry inside joke with myself

Naphta Wrote:There are so many classics in this thread already that I don't even know where to start - my quote-ometer is going crazy!

Annastay Wrote:We have jazz musicans on here not posting their music?


... sorry inside joke with myself

Both these posts pretty much highlight what I'm talking about. Cheers guys, that was very generous of you both to contribute so quickly

Roo Stercogburn Wrote:

Naphta Wrote:There are so many classics in this thread already that I don't even know where to start - my quote-ometer is going crazy!

Annastay Wrote:We have jazz musicans on here not posting their music?


... sorry inside joke with myself

Both these posts pretty much highlight what I'm talking about. Cheers guys, that was very generous of you both to contribute so quickly

Well i was racking my brain of the experimental creativity that you felt this board was lacking. It wasn't a dig, it was half a joke about my own opinion about music and the topic of innovativeness and not directed so much to your post in particular, just what i was thinking after reading your post.

I usually try to sensor myself on here quite a bit due to not wanting to being taken the wrong way as i have a abstract sense of humor thats somewhat jadded (that can easily be taken wrong).

No worries. Just in from work and replied to your PM

Bye...

I will miss the muppet-show , no more

Perhaps you will find a forum, where the users have better taste in music and are more friendly to you

* TVG returns to working on his suburban music

I usually don't post when forum drama is going down, can't be bothered. Since I'm in a very good mood, won my court battle yesterday, I'm letting myself have a bit of fun.

I find this forum to be an exercise in tolerance and I enjoy most of the music and people that I come in contact with here at SC. Each to their own.

thread temporarily locked while I write replies

well, ok, thread unlocked...

missy swanker Wrote:Below is my open letter asking for deletion of my account.

Others are probably not aware that Mark made a new account purely to follow the thread Roo posted about his new site going up. Fada again posted some twattish reply so Mark sent a warning PM to him and he was banned again - no warning, nothing. Just a total ban.

Mark was banned again because he was already banned. The existing ban was applied to his new account. Why wouldn't it be?

And the reason he was banned was because of his posts in these threads:

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51143
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51157
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51163

and earlier:
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=46954

You won't find any support (apart from yours) for those posts anywhere in those threads because there isn't any.

missy swanker Wrote:Please can you delete my account. I really don't feel comfortable having it active for all the reasons I have mentioned previously.

Yes, I'm sure you can have your account deleted (though not by me since I don't have the power to delete accounts). I'm sorry it has to end this way.

missy swanker Wrote:Yes it's an online community but rather than being a rich cosmopolitan place like London it is more like a Milton Keynes full of suburban people making suburban music. The people who are gravitating towards the site are now no longer the interesting vibrant people it once attracted and any that dare to start saying views that are 'viewful' or that different are squashed.

When I said this very same thing. There were people who agreed with what I said and you or someone came up and said it was just a load of history going on. It's not Statto. The site should just be left to breathe sometimes. It's like having kids - let them sort it out themselves and don't interfere.

No, it is history. Mostly, as you say, you can ignore drama (though fortunately most people don't feel the need to indulge in drama here). But this time Mark made it so I couldn't ignore it. The very pertinent history is in the "earlier" thread linked above.

missy swanker Wrote:I just don't understand why you come down so hard on Mark and don't apply your 'holier than thou no abuse crap' equally across the board. He made a new character to follow the thread which Roo had put up about his new site. He didn't even post. He did send a warning PM to Fada after Fada called him a twat. But then ban Fada as well as Mark as they did equal abuse - in fact Mark didn't abuse at all. It was Fada. Why is he not banned?

He made a new character, sure, but so what. It was Mark that was banned, not the account.

As for Fada, yes I saw the "twat" post, and then that it had been deleted. And yes, noisemonkey says he deleted it, which is fine. Then I permanently deleted it. Note that last bit. Quoting from your PM because this is relevant:

missy swanker Wrote:

Statto Wrote:I've just been through Fada's posts (going back as far as last August) and I can't find anything abusive.

That is because they have been deleted. Noisemonkey was quick on the draw on the most recent one but they are always all deleted so there is no record of them.

No, it's because they were never there. What Mark is telling you is total crap. There's no reason you would realize this but users can't remove posts in vBulletin. They can have posts marked for deletion so that they're removed from public view and appear deleted, but then it takes admin to come along and remove them from the database. And admin in this case always means me. Fada never had any posts to be deleted. The posts you think were deleted were never there. Similarly, in the Torrents thread, Loris never made any of the posts you thought had been deleted. Mark is just making that up.

As for Mark:

missy swanker Wrote:Mark's 'abuse' is normally in humour and also if a piece of music is crap then he says so. What is the problem with people hearing proper critique? His 'abuse' is only ever about the music and rarely personal - he only gets personal when extremely drunk and when pushed to the edge.

Which is far too often. And the abuse in those threads is very personal. You need to read again what other people are saying in those threads. It's not SC admin vs Mark, it's not Fada vs Mark, it's not anybody vs Mark. Mark had just been a total arsehole – again – and was banned for it.

Blue Wrote:Dear Statto,

I would like you to give me the opportunity to return the money that you paid for my music a la the ZnO Albums.... you deserve them for free being the terrible whore that you are.

I Resent the day money passed our hands.

I Resent the day I gave Scope a chance.

Shame on you all.

I would like this to happen for peace of my mind.

I dont feel comfortable with you paying for my music.

Good luck with your spineless activities.

You know my email address, i will continue to hound you in every way I can until i can "pay you back"

As per my first realease on SC (a label I created)

SUCK!

fuck you Jon.

Dear Mark

Yes, if you want me to add up everything I've paid for your music I can do that. I don't mind having money back. And I'll keep the music anyway because it's good.

But you have no legitimate grievance against me.

Mostly when your mates are being an arsehole you can ignore them, or else you shout at each other for a bit and forget about it later. This time (in the Torrents thread) you made it so I couldn't ignore it. As moderator I had to go and step in. And of course you had no problem with that until you realized that I was actually moderating you as well.

So then you went off on one and made it personal. And for fucking what?!? For no fucking reason at all. So I've lost a friend over a load of fucking stupid bollocks. It's a load of fucking shite and it's all your fault.

Jon

Kontra Wrote:And mine:

Hi Jon

Could you please delete my account? I'm really not happy with the way things have gone with the board, especially after the Mods treated Mark. Surely that went against everything that SC was supposed to represent? The board is also going downhill rapidly and seems to avoid any coherent or decent debate regarding music and any other worthwhile discussions.

I don't want to be a part of a board that doesn't recognise what were its core values. something that always appealed to me, but alas they are no more. I came to this board because they shared common values and also were open minded to different opinions. Yes abuse has been shared by one and all, but it has never been malicious. If it had been derogatory to anyone then fair dos, But in these instances it has not been.

Yours in deletion

Andy

Dear Andy

Yes, of course you can have your account deleted as well (though, again, not by me). I'll be sorry to see you go.

But regarding your comments, can I just ask? Have you actually read Mark's posts in these threads?

http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51143
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51157
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=51163

and earlier:
http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/show...hp?t=46954

They're abusive, malicious, derogatory, just downright nasty. I don't see how these posts represent SC core values. Or any values at all. And I don't see how they can be put aside so easily just because Mark feels he has a right to be here. It's not a campaign of mean, unfair Mods vs Mark. It's not prejudice, not vindictive, not anything. This is all down to him.

Jon

Roo Stercogburn Wrote:I have to admit I've not seen much discussion of music other than nostalgia for the various branches of DnB/Jungle and the occasional person asking for pointers to examples of a particular genre. That said, here and there I've picked up a couple of things and I appreciate it. There is a lot of technical expertise on SC.

My own contributions don't exactly cover me in the glory of in-depth and insightful (as opposed to inciteful ) debate.

I'm going to cover a variety of inter-related topics here. Get the coffee out.
I may put some noses out of joint as for once I'm stepping out of my usual level of harmless posting.

Plunging in...

I appreciate this is preference and taste but I've held back on posting the following thoughts primarily because I don't want to cause offense. However, losing some of the variation that makes music *exciting* is a massive loss to me.

There are two types of music that get posted on SC, with extremely little variation:

1) DnB/Jungle/SomeRandomWordSubgenreOfDnB

2) Ambient

Or combinations of above.

Many of the postings seem to be a 7 minute 'song' comprised of a sustained note / minor chord lasting most of the duration and someone having hit the randomize function on their drum machine or what sounds like a monkey thats been fed acid and given a couple of drum sticks. Perhaps chopped up someone else's drum loops under said 7 minute sustain and recycled.

Don't get me wrong, here and there are some absolute gems and it would be wrong for anyone to expect to like everything they hear on a forum 100%. But my point is that a lot of it does get a bit samey quite fast. Highlights to date of the good things that come via SC to me have been things such as the Age of Outsiders and Ronin's Battledrums. That Wiking chap, Speak, too is starting to do some nice stuff that to my mind makes it worth watching what he's up to. (I mention these as obvious positive examples. Not being mentioned here is not intended as a slight on anyone and also this is not intended to imply that my opinion is lofty and weighty).

I might be about to be massively corrected but I was led to believe that SC was more than this and actively aiming to be greater. And yet, you can't pin it down to any single post, you can't pin it on any one person, but there's a definate air of "If it ain't DnB, it ain't for SC". (Please don't go quoting the various threads in General, I'm referring to original music posted by users of this forum and this doesn't include podcasts/mixes/radioshows. I'm talking only about original music posted up for people to listen to.)

The variation and willingness to experiment, even when one might seem foolish to peers is what music should be all about - not staying in the comfort zone where you know nobody will laugh at you for trying something different.

This may sound a bit odd, but I *like* hearing all the different things that creativity has to offer, even the things I don't like. I feel it pushes me to expand my own awareness of music. I also value that for all I have made somewhat facetious comments in a previous paragraph in this post, I don't want to do anything negative to affect anyone else's creativity.

Creativity is treasure. Nothing less than absolute treasure. We are all the sum of our influences with our own personal spice thrown in.

There does however seem to be a lot of recycling going on with SC as some people live in a nostalgia trip for their favourite DnB bands/era. If thats what some want to do, there's nothing wrong with that. I didn't think that was what SC was only about this but I now have this nagging doubt. It does rather seem that the stronger personalities / keyboard heroes (PC keyboard, not music keyboard) are pushing others away.

This does worry me a bit.

I was gutted when Zno left SC. He is one of the people that has ever posted on here in my time using these forums that does not worship at the altar of Amen and isn't afraid to experiment. I do feel if I'd been around when it happened I could have gripped him warmly by the throat and calmed him down. (Ultimately we're all responsible for our own behaviour so I don't beat myself up too much ) However, as mentioned, he was far from the only guilty party. The modding itself was fine in that he absolutely crossed the line during that time. However, so did several others who did not appear to receive any penalty or hounding from certain quarters. I personally found some of the peripheral snide behaviour quite unsettling and commented on it at the time. The whole episode made me quite uneasy because whether the SC admins are willing to admit it or not, it sends a definate signal to the rest of us that use these forums.

This is old ground. I wouldn't be revisiting it but it is directly on topic.

Before any keyboard heroes decide to answer with "If you don't like SC, don't use SC" then consider this: When you exclude someone, you actually exclude yourself. Personally, I would prefer to see SC flourish. There are some great peeps using these forums and I am always mindful that whatever else is said, the admins are not getting paid to run these forums.

I have seen many threads on wildly different niche music that has tickled this or that person. If I'm being honest I'm not always convinced that the poster genuinely loves that niche and might be playing an internet-cool game of "I can find more obscure music than you nyar nyar" but lets assume that the majority are genuine. Consider this then:

At time of typing I have not seen one person in the time I've been using these boards post any original music of their own that breaks out of the safety mould. That should be sending warning signals if nothing else does.

What is it about posting on SC that might make someone not want to post outre music? Some of the music is very good but subversive? No. Dangerous? No. Challenging? Not really. I think its a bit too cruel to call it suburban (but I did chuckle) but complacency in creativity is stagnation and repetition and largely that is what is posted on SC.

This is after all 'Subvert' Central, the very name implies a place for naughty people to ply their craft away from the mainstream. Nobody wants to post music if they're fairly sure it won't be well received or at least have a fighting chance of some kind of decent reception. This is the quiet death that SC has the potential to suffer. I'd prefer this didn't happen. And seriously, when's the last time you met a naughty person that was easy to manage?

There's a definate disparity between stated goal and actual intent here.

Perhaps its just my perception and I've misunderstood what SC is all about. I am happy to be corrected.

Just some food for thought.

Well, I agree with most of that, I have to say. I like experimentation just for the sake of it. We used to argue about those kind of things. For my taste there has always been too much dnb here, and I grumble about it from time to time. But dnb is what most people here have in common so that's what they tend to post about. And that's the sort of music people make too, because they like it. What can you do?

From a personal standpoint I try to post about different music. And I do like all the obscure stuff — and lots of other stuff. I tried to bring this into SC Vol.3, which was about more musical variety; even the dnb on it was mostly quite unusual. (That it's sold the worst of the three volumes says something perhaps.)

The practical problem with "other music" threads is that there's no group basis for them. Whereas dnb is common ground, people have different "other musics", which don't necessarily resonate elsewhere. So the threads unfortunately sink quite quickly. Again, what can you do?

But returning to the original theme of the thread:

Roo Stercogburn Wrote:I was gutted when Zno left SC. He is one of the people that has ever posted on here in my time using these forums that does not worship at the altar of Amen and isn't afraid to experiment. I do feel if I'd been around when it happened I could have gripped him warmly by the throat and calmed him down. (Ultimately we're all responsible for our own behaviour so I don't beat myself up too much ) However, as mentioned, he was far from the only guilty party. The modding itself was fine in that he absolutely crossed the line during that time. However, so did several others who did not appear to receive any penalty or hounding from certain quarters. I personally found some of the peripheral snide behaviour quite unsettling and commented on it at the time. The whole episode made me quite uneasy because whether the SC admins are willing to admit it or not, it sends a definate signal to the rest of us that use these forums.

Yes, the forum is certainly lessened because Mark isn't on it. And because a lot of other people hardly post here any more for various reasons – mostly because dnb no longer interests them very much.

As to the "peripheral snide behaviour", perhaps it only seems like that. The comments were mostly from long-standing forum members who were just bored with all the pointless drama.

Personally I hope never to have to deal with this kind of drama ever again.

Really sorry for the drama.

Roo put what I wanted to say so much more eloquently and tactfully what I was trying to say.

The reason it has come up again is because mark was banned again just a day or so ago.

Kontra and Roo both are verbalizing the thoughts of many.

I know for many you don't know and don't care what goes on behind the scenes but it does effect everyone. Leanna came over yesterday who Streetbeats people will know. She is a peace loving activist and was incredulous about what happened. Her immediate reaction was how can they ban you when you created and invented SC. Most of the ideals which were supposed to be adhered to on the forum were Marks vision of what a forum could be.

But yes bad behaviour is bad behaviour full stop and a forum never belongs to a single person.

I don't agree with a lifetime ban. It's the death penalty of a forum. Death penalty for mouthy behaviour. Fantastic.

But also if you do ban one person then everyone who exhibits the same behaviour should get banned too. In this case Fada.

Sorry for clogging up the forum with another thread but the one this post is part of is locked.

Jon,

It's the hypocrisy that I'm not happy with. A certain member of the forum can make homophobic and general insults all day long, but nothing gets done about it. Now I'm not saying that anyone should get banned, especially as that was the original ethos of SC, but double standards have been made apparent. Surely you must appreciate the anger and hurt that is felt by someone who set this forum up?

Andy

Kontra Wrote:Jon,

It's the hypocrisy that I'm not happy with. A certain member of the forum can make homophobic and general insults all day long, but nothing gets done about it. Now I'm not saying that anyone should get banned, especially as that was the original ethos of SC, but double standards have been made apparent. Surely you must appreciate the anger and hurt that is felt by someone who set this forum up?

Andy

Homophobic and general insults from who? To whom?

I appreciate that Mark is hurt and angry, but I really don't see any legitimate cause. Nor any hypocrisy. Please explain.

Jon

missy swanker Wrote:Sorry for clogging up the forum with another thread but the one this post is part of is locked.

it was only temporarily locked while I wrote my replies. I wanted them all to come together instead of them being split up as other people joined in.

anyway, I've merged your post into the original thread