FUNK
#51

Macc Wrote:My main gripe (God I have loads of em Grin ) is WHY CAN'T MORE PEOPLE BE AS OPEN AS THAT?

Because no-one has shown them how to be.
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#52

Naphta Wrote:
Macc Wrote:My main gripe (God I have loads of em Grin ) is WHY CAN'T MORE PEOPLE BE AS OPEN AS THAT?

Because no-one has shown them how to be.



That's why I always 'give out' about shit Naphta......... There's other people in a much better position to actually put the stuff in people's ears (my live thing being the exception, that's the only thing I can do), but I am on their backs all the time.

I'm only being a stern but friendly steel toecap in the hole Smile

Not a very effective one, but I have enough energy to keep at it for a while yet :P
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#53

Funk has a lot of parallels to dnb in its cultural creation.

As alot of it is for the dancefloor so will be jumpy aroundy type thang.

But funk as a 'groove' concept has a strong background in jazz and not a lot of those examples are 'happy'.

i.e. Miles' 'Dark Magus' 'Live Evil' 'Bitches Brew' all funky as hell (the last actually been quoted by Miles ass inspired by James Brown)
also EDDIE HENDERSONS : Realization... there's so many
Herbie has done lots of late 60's and 70's stuff that's moody and funky

One of the defining factors that made funk was its use of syncopated rhythms and the heavy focus on the ONE. But it's 'FUNK' as a term has always been a cause for discussion. It's one of those unknown factors that is there or it ain't. Take funky drummer, played by Clyde it's gonna have it, the same rhythm played by a rock drummer will sound different. Emphasis, dynamics and nuances each individual to the styles of the musician add to the 'Funk'. Even in the 'Funk World' major artists have backed off defining it as it's one of those things you know or you don't. 7th sense stuff.

It's a common mistake that when sayin 'rhythm', people immediately think drumming. But horn sections brought out the funk just as much, and added the extra emphasis on the funk. I'm sure i'm not sayin anything that ain't already been said. but fuck it i'm pissed off with workin Teef
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#54

Macc Wrote:That's why I always 'give out' about shit Naphta......... There's other people in a much better position to actually put the stuff in people's ears (my live thing being the exception, that's the only thing I can do), but I am on their backs all the time.

I'm only being a stern but friendly steel toecap in the hole Smile

Not a very effective one, but I have enough energy to keep at it for a while yet :P

I understand EXACTLY where you're coming from. But 'giving out' has served its use.... and you can't bully people into 'opening their minds'. The key to changing people's attitudes is to make music that appeals over the heads of dumbass Djs and their braindead infrastructures... SEDUCE the audience into dancing to shit that they would previously have stopped to question - THAT is the way forward.

IMO.
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#55

iNSiGHt Wrote:It's a common mistake that when sayin 'rhythm', people immediately think drumming. But horn sections brought out the funk just as much, and added the extra emphasis on the funk.

THAT is an excellent point. I used to hear far far far more rhythmic interplay between different elements 10 years ago - long before 'drumfunk' ever existed, or before peopel thought of d+b as 'more bass, less drums' or vice versa. And not just a big stab noise or whatever... of course the heavier emphasis on SAMPLING certainly facilitated this - gave producers more opportunities to cut up other soudns and use non-drum samples rhythmically...
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#56

naphta Wrote:i understand exactly where you're coming from. but 'giving out' has served its use.... and you can't bully people into 'opening their minds'. the key to changing people's attitudes is to make music that appeals over the heads of dumbass djs and their braindead infrastructures... seduce the audience into dancing to shit that they would previously have topped to question - that is the way forward.

imo.

that is exactly what i am trying to do, man.

of course the emphasis is on trying.

but (and i ain't talking about just my tunes here) this still comes back to people not putting it out cos, apparently, it 'isn't dancefloor'.


Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral

saying that - wait for my beautiful defect Yes
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#57

naphta Wrote:Chin hmmmm..... haven't heard anything enw frm sileni in a very long time, but if his stuff reminded me of anything it was abstract techno.

but that's the point naphta. techno took the essence of the funk groove and recontextulaised it in a late 80s/early 90s dancefloor context, and so it has continued.

man, listen to source direct - for all their dark atmospherics they were pure groove music: their signifiers, and the symbolic orbit within which they worked (which sounds had accepted currency) were often different to what weather report used. but the essentials were the same...
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#58

Naphta Wrote:THAT is an excellent point. I used to hear far far far more rhythmic interplay between different elements 10 years ago... of course the heavier emphasis on SAMPLING certainly facilitated this - gave producers more opportunities to cut up other soudns and use non-drum samples rhythmically...

dgoHn and I do that alllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the time. That is what I draw from funk. True, I might not use a horn sample, but I might make something play a rhythm that once upon a time would have been played by horns or summink.

Not done it so much very recently though Neutral
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#59

Logos Wrote:Man, listen to source direct - for all their dark atmospherics they were pure groove music: their signifiers, and the symbolic orbit within which they worked (which sounds had accepted currency) were often different to what weather report used. But the essentials were the same...

I don't hear them that way... the aloofness, austerity and cold otherworldliness removes them beyond that for me. Pure groove (IMO) music: old L Double, Hype, Tom & Jerry, Aphrodite, DJ Monk, Nut-Nut, Andy C etc.
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#60

as an aside : with all this weather report talk, i was listening to the "night passage" LP last night.....

i declare it to be everyones duty to listen to the track "FAST CITY", AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! THAT'S AN ORDER!

GET AT IT NOW NOW NOW!!!


that track is soooooooo sick..... Homerdrool
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creative!" 
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#61

for me it's the nrg & application of talent.Unlike alot of jazz where you had the most talented musicians EVER just amusing themselves with 10mins of utter useless foolishness FUNK put that talent in a musical context that ppl could relate to for 5/6 mins & actually get up & dance.
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#62

ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:for me it's the nrg & application of talent.Unlike alot of jazz where you had the most talented musicians EVER just amusing themselves with 10mins of utter useless foolishness FUNK put that talent in a musical context that ppl could relate to for 5/6 mins & actually get up & dance.


whoa there now.....you're gonna have to clarify exactly what you mean with that "utter useless foolishness" comment...

just because something doesn't make you DANCE, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad music.....some music IS hyer-cerebral, and shouldn't be any other way.

give me some examples of "utter foolishness".....track names, bands, eras whatever.....i'm just really curious about this.
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creative!" 
-Mingus
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#63

ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:for me it's the nrg & application of talent.Unlike alot of jazz where you had the most talented musicians EVER just amusing themselves with 10mins of utter useless foolishness FUNK put that talent in a musical context that ppl could relate to for 5/6 mins & actually get up & dance.

U like JOhn Coltrane?
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#64

i'm with dodz - you need need to watch that talk ao Nono
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#65

& I do luv Jazz but let's face it there's a lot of useless tripe in that scene.

Real tripe.

But what skills Icon_eek
Word of Mouth Lp-Thermal Records-out now.Artwork courtesy of Structure.
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'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#66

Naphta Wrote:
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:for me it's the nrg & application of talent.Unlike alot of jazz where you had the most talented musicians EVER just amusing themselves with 10mins of utter useless foolishness FUNK put that talent in a musical context that ppl could relate to for 5/6 mins & actually get up & dance.

U like JOhn Coltrane?

Sheer Genius
Word of Mouth Lp-Thermal Records-out now.Artwork courtesy of Structure.
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'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#67

ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:Sheer Genius

Do you like his far-out shit as well as the straight-up stuff?
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#68

ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:& I do luv Jazz but let's face it there's a lot of useless tripe in that scene.

Real tripe.

But what skills Icon_eek


of course there is.....but it's the same tripe as any other scene. i don't really see what you're getting at here....
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creative!" 
-Mingus
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#69

the attraction of funk is what I'm getting at.
Word of Mouth Lp-Thermal Records-out now.Artwork courtesy of Structure.
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'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#70

Naphta Wrote:
ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:Sheer Genius

Do you like his far-out shit as well as the straight-up stuff?

I like it all just because I call something useless tripe doesn't mean I don't like it.

Prime example

Most trance=formulaic tripe

But I luv it!

:P
Word of Mouth Lp-Thermal Records-out now.Artwork courtesy of Structure.
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'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

Chuck D
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#71

donald byrd was quoted as once saying that the reason he moved more into the soul jazz groove is that soul specifically was the music of the people, and that was the best way he could relate what he does to the black masses. he felt that jazz at that time didn't attempt to relate to black audiences anymore, that it became academic.

i disagree slightly with that, but i feel what he's saying in his music and music of the time: you get this vision of a brighter day for the people in the music, like, for example, in places and spaces. soul & funk was still the people's music; jazz, in a lot of ways, did become academic. perhaps it had to do with the civil right movement, empowerment and a more pro black stance, but you get a world of possibilities in tracks in that era. it's probably the way people felt when they listened to detroit techno for the first time, or when i listen to drum & bass.
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#72

ALPHA OMEGA Wrote:I like it all just because I call something useless tripe doesn't mean I don't like it.

Prime example

Most trance=formulaic tripe

But I luv it!

:P

Baffled Er.... for the purposes of being understood in conversation, it would probably help if you reserved the term 'useless' for music that you actually have NO USE FOR! If you LIKE it, then you DO have a use for it! Capiche? Cool
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#73

come on now. 10mins of some guy hitting a piano with nails is USELESS!

Great for sampling but useless.

Then the 10 min drum solo,great for sampling but can get real grating...

(watch Macc blow his lid!)
Word of Mouth Lp-Thermal Records-out now.Artwork courtesy of Structure.
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'There's no such thing as selling out just buying in'

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#74

alpha omega Wrote:the attraction of funk is what i'm getting at.

you mean that it focusses on getting a group response? or maybe that it's aiming at performing a more... social fucntion than jazz? Chin
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#75

Au contraire - never been a fan of drum solos really.

'It's all abaht da beetz, ghuy!'

Why do you think all I can do is play breaks and beats? I can't play a normal drum solo to save my life!
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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