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s something geeky discuss really let

Thread Contributor: MaccLet's discuss something really geeky

#1
Any ideas?

Maybe the merits of chopping in ReCycle then tightening further in your sampler.

Perhaps the benefits of a well-thought out gain structure in your mix.

Or the age old attack-release-ratio-threshold balancing act on compression on a fart.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#2
maybe achieveing overall 'loudness' without taking the modern brick wall approach to your final mix?

i like the sound of the gain structure one though macc Xyxthumbs
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#3
how to finish a tune Oops

nah erm gain structure in what way ?

the pre fader gain or the overall gain from the sample upwards?
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#4
Yeah, the overall construction of your mix from a level point of view....

For example, I could smash a sound with compression and use the make up gain in the compressor to restore level, OR I could use the channel fader to bring the gain back up.

And so on.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#5
Macc Wrote:Yeah, the overall construction of your mix from a level point of view....

For example, I could smash a sound with compression and use the make up gain in the compressor to restore level, OR I could use the channel fader to bring the gain back up.

And so on.

well because of the superior headroom control of the emuCool, my samples never pass above -5 or so db with the channel set to 0 and the preset volume to even +10 (its the setting i have it on -9db) so i only have to turn stuff down when i chain loads of fx with extra gain (the puletc can smash the levels tho so that takes some careful limiting some times) In kontakt its sooo differnt for evey channel it gets complicated,

in digital i don't see any issues with the make up gain as theres no extra noise introduced as there is in a real compressor (mines not been switched on in about 6 months) so it does not really matter unless it swallows the mix up, but thats where the subtracive eq comes into play for me.

I don't even bother making samples louder or normalizing as 9 times out of ten the gain on the sampler is more then enough,
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#6
may i add unless im using kontakt then i have to get clever on its ass
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#7
like, this sample i got looped is the sound of an 8bit sampler like, totally malfunctioning and stuff..



:geek: Lol
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#8
dsp Wrote:in digital i don't see any issues with the make up gain as theres no extra noise introduced as there is in a real compressor

ah no, but the resolution on some faders isn't linear, and as you get lower the resolution gets a lot worse.......... Chin

interesting........ veeeerrrryyy interesting :yawn
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#9
logos Wrote:maybe achieveing overall 'loudness' without taking the modern brick wall approach to your final mix?

i like the sound of the gain structure one though macc Xyxthumbs

the brickwall approach is being rubbished now, due to the inherent loss of dynamics.

unfortunately many mastering engineers still are doing this.

check http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.ns...2e005daf1c

for a great article that means i dont have to explain Hahaha
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#10
dsp Wrote:
Macc Wrote:Yeah, the overall construction of your mix from a level point of view....

For example, I could smash a sound with compression and use the make up gain in the compressor to restore level, OR I could use the channel fader to bring the gain back up.

And so on.

in digital i don't see any issues with the make up gain as theres no extra noise introduced as there is in a real compressor (mines not been switched on in about 6 months) so it does not really matter unless it swallows the mix up, but thats where the subtracive eq comes into play for me.

You'd be surprised.

First of all. Dont trust the meteres in a DAW.
They sample at fixed in tervals.
It is possible, and likely that the audio signal peaks at levels upto around 1.5dB higher than the peak meter shows, as this tru peak occurs inbetween the discrete points in time at which the DAW meters scan the signal.

Secondly - any compressor, digital or analog will bring up the noise floor. period. Any outboard comp worth its salt will not add any extra noise - it may bring out the noise inherent in the program material - but it won't add any discernable noise. If yours does then its either faulty, or not a very good unit....
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#11
Cos I'm over on the Grid on DOA a lot I get loudness issue related questions all the time..

Most commonly, why isn't my bass loud enough in the mix? or how come I can't get my bass loud enough without it clipping?... you get the idea.

It seems people aren't aware you can TURN THE OTHER PARTS DOWN!!

People (more often than not) start with the drums and try to get them as loud as possible and then wonder why the other elements don't sit right afterwards.

When I suggest turning other tracks down they are so shocked, like it's some kind of amazing revelation to them!?!

My personal technique is to write the track quieter than I want it and then sort out the dynamics at the end rather than try to do it all as I go.. I find it much harder to finish a tune if I'm controlling all the dynamics as I go along cos I seem to get to a point where a particular sound just won't fit frequency-wise and instead of re-EQing other sections to make space for it I'll just give up on it all together.. lame I know.

SO not really geeky but my opinion
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#12
Drums peak at -6dB and that is the end of it. No fucking about. Then SQUUUUEEEEEEEZE until it still sounds good. Grin Nah, not into compression on drums any more - although I use it once in a while - all about TransX>Tube>limiter Lovesmilie Punch, volume, and a wet set of pants every time.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#13
Can you explain a bit more about how to use Trans X, and what it does sonically to the signal?
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#14
Not without payment.

6 toffee muffins, 2 Kitkat caramels and a wispa gold (good luck!).

Nah, I will do a little write up in a tick.
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#15
Macc Wrote:Drums peak at -6dB and that is the end of it. No fucking about. Then SQUUUUEEEEEEEZE until it still sounds good. Grin Nah, not into compression on drums any more - although I use it once in a while - all about TransX>Tube>limiter Lovesmilie Punch, volume, and a wet set of pants every time.

hmm i'll have to give that a go. Grin

i use Waves Rcomp as an expander into a vintagewarmer.... and i definitely dont stick to your -6db thing. Just kinda do what ever sounds right.
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#16
macc Wrote:not without payment.

6 toffee muffins, 2 kitkat caramels and a wispa gold (good luck!).

Chin
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#17
batfink Wrote:hmm i'll have to give that a go. :d

i use waves rcomp as an expander into a vintagewarmer.... and i definitely dont stick to your -6db thing. just kinda do what ever sounds right.

-6db = half your mix Xyxthumbs

then juuuuuuuuuuuuust less than half for bass (peaking at -6.5) and everything else is parsley Xyxthumbs
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#18
In my totally ungeeky way (although I understand what people are saying) I have to go with Ben Kai's little explanation.

Personally I throw out a lot of knowledge and just tamper with controls to get things sounding right. I know I'll probably get to a mastering engineer one day and they'll say how bad the mix down is, but you know what I don't really care. It's their job to sort it out, that's what I'm paying them for.

Although with every tune I work on, or engineer for Madcap, I learn more little techniques but I still swear by a lot of trial and error... probably why I'll never get anything released!! Lol
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#19
WiLSHY Wrote:I'll probably get to a mastering engineer one day and they'll say how bad the mix down is, but you know what I don't really care. It's their job to sort it out, that's what I'm paying them for.

NO IT ISN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


As has been said countless times on here, you cannot polish a turd.

The mastering engineer can't fix your mix it if is that shit. A mastering engineer's job is to get the thing sounding as good as poss when it goes on vinyl.

He cannot make the (for example) vocal louder in the mix, not without affecting everything else in that range.

Get it right in the mix - try to get your mixes sounding like they have alreaady been mastered.

Trust me, Matt, really!
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#20
Whoa there Bobert. I'm not saying make the mixdown shit overall. I will spend a long time getting levels just right and how I feel they should sound.

But what I am saying is, I'm not the greatest engineer in the world and will never be that. So once everything sounds all level and good for me, it's over to the mastering engineer to give it some sheen and depth with far better equipment than I ever could afford. Surely they would prefer something 'under' mastered than something that's had all sorts of mastering effects added (like with Izotope Ozone et al) badly?

But don't worry Macc, I'm not making my mixdowns sound pony. They've always sound 'ok' when I've played them out. I say 'ok' as I'm no engineering genuis at the moment.
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#21
only laura calls me bobert Oops Hahaha

anyway, no, i know what you are saying, and the thing i heard sounded pretty good - but don't get lax and think 'well i'll pay some other silly cunt to do it' Xyxthumbs

Wave Kisskiss

and yeah - you are right about the botch-job home mastering thing too.

Smile
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
Reply

#22
Oops. Didn't mean to get you all glazy eyed about Laura!! How's her kebab loving mum by the way?! Wink Hehe.

Fair enough, I think we've struck a medium there. There's no worries about me getting lax, I'm too much of a perfectionist as it is hence why I rarely give out my few tunes I've finished. Never happy with the mixdown.

Glad I'm right on the home mastering shiznit though. Not sure whether to run my mixdowns through them, always seem to give a false sheen to the whole thing.

I am starting to put my recorded DJ mixes through them though, just to give more life to the crappy sound my numark mixer gives.
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#23
WiLSHY Wrote:Oops. Didn't mean to get you all glazy eyed about Laura!! How's her kebab loving mum by the way?! Wink Hehe.

Fair enough, I think we've struck a medium there. There's no worries about me getting lax, I'm too much of a perfectionist as it is hence why I rarely give out my few tunes I've finished. Never happy with the mixdown.

Glad I'm right on the home mastering shiznit though. Not sure whether to run my mixdowns through them, always seem to give a false sheen to the whole thing.

I am starting to put my recorded DJ mixes through them though, just to give more life to the crappy sound my numark mixer gives.

btw the emux is avalible again @ 180 if ya want it my m8 has changed his mind , let me know init
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#24
Chin
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Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
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#25
macc Wrote:Chin

is ya mail working m8?
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