Attn: All Make-Believe Labels, (this isn't nice, be warned)

i haven't read the end of this thread....but from my skimming, i'd say that wiz is partially right about the monetary stuff, and some others are right about it being possible to do DIY and not lose cash hand over fist.....


statto : the 1pound per record thing is wrong. even though you're in UK, you still have to ship to every other country outside of the UK. that costs a lot. (as i've recently learned).....i don't want to break down what i know (very little), but at the end of the day, distro or not, the net margin on vinyl after all is said and done is quite small until you really start moving units.....by that point you've probably got P&D anyway.....

bleh....this thread is depressing me today....i'll come back when i'm in better spirits on this....

[Statto]

statto : the 1pound per record thing is wrong. even though you're in uk, you still have to ship to every other country outside of the uk. that costs a lot. (as i've recently learned).....i don't want to break down what i know (very little), but at the end of the day, distro or not, the net margin on vinyl after all is said and done is quite small until you really start moving units.....by that point you've probably got p&d anyway.....

why do we have to ship? there are other ways to do that

but sure, the margin is small without big numbers... which is the main reason for keeping the costs small; we'll pay big when we can afford big

really why do things have to be the way they are?
fuck the industry

Instead of complaining about being poor & having no money & taunting labels to pay you, making 40 tunes a year and releasing 4 of them - get a job (like the most of us, yeah, even the students), spend less time in the studio, make 10 tunes a year and release 10 of them.

you're forgetting that he is a student, which has a huge effect on his economy and use of time..

i'm not sure if i understood that correctly, are you saying that Brett & Chris spot a huge ego?

Brett definitely doesn't



j

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for an example, if you write stuff only for your desk drawers for years, you will wanna try to publish it at some point and that is very far from ego-boosting if u ask me.

But what's your reason to publish your art? Most people do it because they feel they have something to say, want to get a reaction, feedback, respect, acknowledgement for what you're doing etc., and when they get that it makes them proud. I'd say that's good for the ego, and there's nothing wrong with it. Everybody needs a healthy ego.

true, but as you so rightly point out, mastering at metropolis or wherever costs a packet. this is just getting ahead of ourselves. yes we'd like the best mastering, pressed up on classical quality vinyl, with full colour artwork, etc. but that's just dreaming at this stage.

But by cutting costs and not getting proper mastering - your final product will probably not sound amazing - which will in turn reflect badly on your label etc - which in turn will reflect on your next release etc.

I think Wizard speaks a lot of sense and some ppl just live in a fecking dream world. I've hardly made a penny from Nerve and never will, so many new artists seem to think (or did do when the industry was a bit stronger) that by getting a release out you're guaranteed a bit of cash - but even with the support of a P&D deal I was still under a fair bit of cash from Nerve's 1-8, and although a small amount of cash was made on the 9-14 releases (Alpha went under just after 15 came out so God alone knows how many copies were even sold), it was hardly anything to write home about and any money I made went into trying to clear the debt I'd gathered from 1-8! Am thankful that the artists were understanding on releases 1-8 - but at the end of the day, I never thought it was about money - just about releasing quality music and any money made was a HUGE bonus. I gave up the dream of making any decent money from dnb a LONG LONG LONG time ago

It's a funny old game!

Another interesting angle is the whole Mp3 thing. Yeah it's great that some labels are going down that route (Nerve included) - but there's also the problem of that market being flooded by substandard product (obviously some ppl would say Nerve is substandard - horses for courses and all that) and the decent stuff being lost in the abyss of Mp3s being sold, as it's relatively simple to get started. Thankfully some of the sites are being selective and not just taking every tom, dick and harry who wants to try and start up an MP3 label...erm dunno what my point was...where's the space cakes?

my solution is either try for a P&D or don't bother at all or do DIY but do it very carefully, in very small acounts AND promote the hell out of it, which means - promote online, sell to as many online stores, international stores as you can, print ads, print promos and give out to DJ's to play - to create awareness - otherwise it's not worth it IMO.

i fully agree.

maybe its time to realize that not every tom, dick and herry can run a successfull label. just like not everyone can run and other type of bussiness. it involves money, time and conviction. how many businesses you see flop before they even start. saying that your product wont sell is selling yourself short. so how can you be successfull ? start small.

there is a lot of hilarity in this thread...

on so many different levels.

j

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[Statto]

But by cutting costs and not getting proper mastering - your final product will probably not sound amazing - which will in turn reflect badly on your label etc - which in turn will reflect on your next release etc.

hmmm

[Statto]

there is a lot of hilarity in this thread...

on so many different levels.

how to offend everyone without saying anything offensive at all

there is a lot of hilarity in this thread...

on so many different levels.

how to offend everyone without saying anything offensive at all

people must think i'm an expert at that..

and not only will they be offended..but i open myself to so much criticism at the same time..when i haven't told anyone anything about how to conduct themselves or said anything that as a direct insult to anyone haha..



it's great isn't it?!?!

j

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[Statto]

people must think i'm an expert at that..

and not only will they be offended..but i open myself to so much criticism at the same time..when i haven't told anyone anything about how to conduct themselves or said anything that as a direct insult to anyone haha..



it's great isn't it?!?!

people must think i'm an expert at that..

and not only will they be offended..but i open myself to so much criticism at the same time..when i haven't told anyone anything about how to conduct themselves or said anything that as a direct insult to anyone haha..



it's great isn't it?!?!

j

0=0

for an example, if you write stuff only for your desk drawers for years, you will wanna try to publish it at some point and that is very far from ego-boosting if u ask me.

But what's your reason to publish your art? Most people do it because they feel they have something to say, want to get a reaction, feedback, respect, acknowledgement for what you're doing etc., and when they get that it makes them proud. I'd say that's good for the ego, and there's nothing wrong with it. Everybody needs a healthy ego.

exactly...

there's nothing wrong w/ it at all...

ego is a perfectly normal thing (although an ego out of control is a whole other story)...

but i have to say for me, it's not just that, but i mostly wanna get my work out to the public to hopefully inspire other people to make new stuff, stuff i may like, which inspires me to come up w/ new stuff, and push myself in return (and others), thus, contributing to the great cycle of creativity/art...

i can think of one simple thing that could go a long way:

DON'T START THE HYPE MACHINE UNTIL YOU'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DELIVERING PRODUCT!!!! or if you must be hyping yourself all the time (i must ), hype using a lack of information and a sense of mystery, not by providing precise details about every release you have planned for the next 5 years. any demand you're creating will fade away as months go by without the product being available so you can capitalize on it, and it'll be harder to earn back, too, since it makes your hype less credible the next time around.

that's why i think creating hype by withholding information is the best way to go - there's no letdown involved, because merely doing anything fulfills the promises of your hype!

you're forgetting that he is a student, which has a huge effect on his economy and use of time..

many producers are students at the same time.

huge effect on the use of time?

how about not spending as much time in the studio and using those extra 15 hours a week on working and making some coin? that sure pays off more than making 40 tracks a year and releasing 4 of them.

work more, make music less, create a balance. make 15 tunes a year and try to push for 10 of them to get released.

if you think that your living is off making music - you're clearly delusional.

this is NOT an insult to Fanu, it's a generic statement. so don't pull a manchu on me.

I have nothing but love for Fanu & his music and want him to succed.



Oh yeah - RESPECT TO PAUL RESET!

Telling it like it is!!!

Big you up souljah.

i agree with colin alpha omega, this thread is depressing...and paul reset i totally feel you cuz we had similar situation with Vinyl Distribution going under. a P & D offers you a flexibility that you do not have without one. and by flexibility i mean the ability to master stuff and release it.

to kinda kick off a side issue of all this : do people agree that there is too much crap out there at the moment? now the people and labels that have been targeted on this thread, thats not who i am talking about....i am not talking about any breaky musical stuff that would be of interest on this board. but i think with so many labels out there now, arent sales inevitably going to go down cuz there is just so much more to choose from??

many producers are students at the same time.

huge effect on the use of time?

how about not spending as much time in the studio and using those extra 15 hours a week on working and making some coin? that sure pays off more than making 40 tracks a year and releasing 4 of them.

work more, make music less, create a balance. make 15 tunes a year and try to push for 10 of them to get released.

well, i really sholdn't be the one talking but afaik fanu's been out for a job for quite a while now, and even if you did found a job it'd better be of long duration because in that case he would have to start paying back the student aids he has been raising that year..

also before the start of this season fanu made a decision to concentrate more on production and do some various leftover-courses, because he basically had two options: first being the one mentioned above and the second being starting his pedagogical (sp?) studies which would've took pretty much all his spare time for quite a while (for at least one year, maybe more), leaving too little time for the studio to really get anything done.

he felt inspirational and maybe wanted to build his career up a bit, can you really blame him for that?

seycunt: :d
ok now it's time for me to shut the hell up about other ppls business, but i just felt saying this because i don't really like the tone that you talk about things you really don't know much of..

no offense meant of course

to kinda kick off a side issue of all this : do people agree that there is too much crap out there at the moment? now the people and labels that have been targeted on this thread, thats not who i am talking about....i am not talking about any breaky musical stuff that would be of interest on this board. but i think with so many labels out there now, arent sales inevitably going to go down cuz there is just so much more to choose from??

i think that maybe there should be less music out there, but since practically every big label churns out the same bland uninteresting shit, harshly said ppl could buy just one single instead of 20 and still get the same dose of "music" and "content", there is no choice but try to displace their position, taking a bigger slice out of the same cake.

in the end we can't coexist

[Macc]

Didn't have time to read all this, just a thought though;

Aren9t promos a total waste of time in these conditions?

What makes them essential? To satisfy dubplate lust, or cos 'it is the way it is done'? Hahahaha - bollocks!

to kinda kick off a side issue of all this : do people agree that there is too much crap out there at the moment? now the people and labels that have been targeted on this thread, thats not who i am talking about....i am not talking about any breaky musical stuff that would be of interest on this board. but i think with so many labels out there now, arent sales inevitably going to go down cuz there is just so much more to choose from??

i think that maybe there should be less music out there, but since practically every big label churns out the same bland uninteresting shit, harshly said ppl could buy just one single instead of 20 and still get the same dose of "music" and "content", there is no choice but try to displace their position, taking a bigger slice out of the same cake.

in the end we can't coexist

I know this prolly sounds weird from me, but I totally agree with that. My business advisor from the Prince's Trust told me to do a big list of all the labels I CAN obtain (not just the few that I stock) and I got to about 300 labels... maybe more. Loads I wouldn't touch with a bargepole (unless someone directly asked for them). Loads and loads of young upstarts with the dream of starting a label, but no talent or ability... and no desire to really work at it. Just clones of their heroes...

I'm gonna start selling happy hardcore... heheh.

Nick

well, i've actaully read everything in this thread.

as much as a i hate to admit it - wizard is right....mostly.

there's practically no money on 500 copy release.

some other points.

Make:Shift is doing the first release DIY - we dont have much of a choice, but if we can show a proper distto that we can sell 500 copies on our own, we have a good chance of getting a proper deal.

as far as promo's - i think you need to do them. we did an extra 100 white label promos for MSR01 - just so we can get the records out to peeps who have will play them. we've sent out many promo's to dj's and for review places. we also gave our about 35 promo's to dj's in just Toronto, becuase that's an easy way for us to build hype. dj's always like to support home-town biz, and now almost every dj in the city (form big guys to small guys) have at least heard of our little label. building hype takes time, but their are cheap ways of doing it. having a base and going form there is a good start.

MSR01 has been out for a month, and we've managed to get rid of 200 copies so far. this is not to say we've been paid for them, as a lot is on consignment, but we already were resigned to fact that for the first release we were gonna eat some costs.

but we are just starting and are optimistic that things will get better. we got some pretty original ideas to put into motion and only time will tell if it works.

this is just the way i see things how they have developed in front of me. its a small level, but im learning as i go.

seriously now,
get the ball rolling on some shit...
i am so annoyed about reading in the mags
about mr. blah blah has tracks forthcoming
on labels m, a, d, e and even u, and p!

me too.. its sooooo frustrating.

i work in a record store and don't see any of these labels,
though i've seen banners and even printed ads for a few of them
for several months now.

thats quite good advertising! what labels?

stop waiting for a p & d. make the investment yourself,

i agree to a point although everyone has to start somewhere and some distro companies offer new guys on the block a p'n d as tradition stands. wouldnt you take up on such an offer to push your dreams forward?

if you can't, should you be starting a label?

if you believe in something go for it i say.

stop complaining about lack of distribution
when kids from round the way press up their own copies
and sell them directly to get their tunes heard if they have to.

and you know of all of those do you? does your records store have super powers that brings in all these labels to your store by magic?
are there really no problems within distribution? of course many labels have problems interanlly and distribution is often the scape goat for poor management within a label but its not a bed of roses and it seems that every label has its very own horror story... these cant be all down to myth and legend?

artists, stop signing tunes to rinky dink labels for an ego boost.
while it's all nice and well to help a new label get off the ground
(labels do need tunes after all)
when you are doing this for tons of labels that don't exist yet,
how are you going to help? all of these labels will look the same...

i agree to a point, but if people do things for two things, money and art. thats it period.
if we can get just one of those it makes life that one bit easier.

maybe that's why so many of these fairy labels are still just 'concepts'
there is no differentiation

"fairy labels" would be a real insult to those that try and havent been able to get a label off the ground for one reason or another with an honest attempt to try to do something in which they believe in. i find this a most ignorant thing to say and very typical of you record store types (whose owners make more money than the hard working artist!).
if you work in a record store and you care about the music industry (which you obviously do! ) then it is your solemn duty to order records into your store that would be otherwise unavailable to your general punter, if more stores ordered in underground indie stock it will create a consumer demmand ( cos you push it down their throats and get em while their young! ) and then it makes it a more attractive prospect for the distro companies to take on small labels and nurse them which then leads on to more distro companies etc etc.... then the bubble bursts

sorry.. rant.

all i am trying to say is,
if you are going to try to do something good for drum and bass,
make sure it is done 100%

i am not trying to hate,
but i'm confused as hell....
push things forward

first thread thats got me going in a while.

nice one!

now i'm gonna read the replies.... :P

page one snooze.

:P

Who here that is signed actually makes decent money (ie a full time wage) out of releasing DnB tracks?