Trilogy VST - automation frustration

21 Replies, 7554 Views

Hello chops

I tried asking this question on wubstepforum and, as you can imagine, found out absolutely nothing at all.

Automating trilogy settings is done with midi cc's, innit. no problem with that per se, but i'm having a nightmare getting smooth filter tweaks.

If i use the mouse to wobble the mod filter amount i can get lovely smooth warping bass action. niiice. But, and its a big ugly butt, if i use midi cc's, they seem to have mapped negative values to midi 0-63 and positive filter values to 64-127. That means that if you, like me, are just trying to use the lower range of positive values, you can't. Instead it jumps from 0 to +2 to +6 and just sounds crapolatastico. Only the mouse allows the knobs to be moved at full resolution and, typically, Trilkogy doesnt send the mouse movements to the VST host. Neutral

Is there any way to do it properly short of doing it with the mouse and recording the audio?
bare
Which host are you in? Acid? Most VST's send control movements to the host these days...
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
i think trilogy is one of those exceptions to the rule..... Sad2
bare
But which host are you in, divbag?
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
Macc Wrote:But which host are you in, divbag?

Aceeeeed.
bare
the way I work with Trilogy is to re sample the bass tones into a sampler. might want to try that?
what sequencer are you using?
beats are there to be broken http://musicindevon.org/
Noisemonk...

batfink Wrote:Aceeeeed.

Wink
ah right.. I thought he just having an interesting weekend.
beats are there to be broken http://musicindevon.org/
yeah i guess i'll have to do the resampling thing. aww shucks. Neutral

i'm not sure i can be bothered though. Lol

thanks anyway chaps. Icon_exclaim
bare
I get the same thing when automating Massive with my Novation 25SL Compact if that means anything whatsoever...

Rocking the mouse tweaks since 88'
Yea automation for trilogy sucks balls. Its the only vst I've come accross that doesnt have an immeadiate list of parameters for automation in ableton live which is pretty retarded for such a popular product.

Anyways

Here's the cc's for controlling the different parameters...
Same difference really just need to read the manual Teef

The following Atmosphere/Trilogy parameters can be remote-controlled from MIDI Control Change messages:

005 Glide Time
007 Master Volume
071 Master Filter Resonance
072 Amp Env Release
073 Amp Env Attack
074 Master Filter Cutoff
075 Amp Env Decay
076 Amp Env Sustain
077 Filter Cutoff
078 Filter Resonance
079 Filter Envelope
080 Filter Key Tracking
081 Layer A Level
082 Layer B Level
083 Layer A Pan
084 Layer B Pan
085 Layer A Pitch Coarse
086 Layer B Pitch Coarse
087 Layer A Pitch Fine
088 Layer B Pitch Fine
089 Mod Pitch Amount
090 Mod Filter Amount
091 Mod Amp Amount
092 Mod Pan Amount
093 Pitch Env Depth
094 Pitch Env Time
095 LFO Depth
096 LFO Rate
097 Filter Env Attack
098 Filter Env Decay
099 Filter Env Sustain
100 Filter Env Release
101 Filter Env V-time
102 Filter Env V-sens
103 Amp Envelope V-time
104 Amp Envelope V-sense
105 Sample Start Offset
106 Layer A On/Off
107 Layer B On/Off
108 Layer Select
109 Link On/Off
110 Solo On/Off
yea just drew in a filter mod automation there and smooth as. No negative value issues
Kachanski Wrote:yea just drew in a filter mod automation there and smooth as. No negative value issues

as in midi cc 90 (mod filter amount)?

if you can get that one to do smooth tweaky action then, i guess, its yet another problm with acid. Icon_cry
bare
yea it controls it normally like any other normal parameter. Sounds very strange that acid would flip values like that....
well. you know below the mod filter amount knob, there's that little button/light which flips between neagtive (yellow) and positive (red) values?

it seems to activate that between 0-63, and switch to positive values from 64-127.

although now i'm entirely confused. so in your host it only allows you to do positive values? not negative ones? Baffled Nervous Crapper
bare
before i tear any more hair out, could anyone else confirm what kachanski has said?

i just can't believe that acid's midi implementation is so wonky as to be totally totally wrong...... heeeelp meee. Lol
bare
sorry, been holding off with this waiting to see if anyone else would chime in. it all depends on the sequencer's handling of bipolar controllers - and it seems acid's is different to others.

your last question two posts ago is a key one though - can kachanski automate the state of the button? and can you automate the state of the button independently from the mod slider?

another option is to look for midi cc smoothing, be it in trilogy's options (?) or in acid.

nevertheless, although you are trying to use midi ccs, doesn't acid send/receive vst automation as well? i know you can't record mouse movements as trilogy doesn't send it, but acid must - to comply with the vst protocol - be able to control fader movements via vst automation (not via midi ccs). so at least you can draw it in by drawing in vst data rather than midi, which also could/should be smoother.

Chin
[Image: protabl3.gif]
Don Cherry Wrote:Every human is blessed in her or his life with one love (passion), no matter how long it may last. This Absolute love will last in one's heart and soul forever.
macc Wrote:sorry, been holding off with this waiting to see if anyone else would chime in.

how very dare you.

macc Wrote:it all depends on the sequencer's handling of bipolar controllers - and it seems acid's is different to others.

different = shit. Lol

macc Wrote:your last question two posts ago is a key one though - can kachanski automate the state of the button? and can you automate the state of the button independently from the mod slider?

i must say this perplexes me somewhat. i pored over the cc controls in case there was something to switch that button, but no dice. this makes me think that acid is just a fucking shitbox.

macc Wrote:another option is to look for midi cc smoothing, be it in trilogy's options (?) or in acid.

nevertheless, although you are trying to use midi ccs, doesn't acid send/receive vst automation as well? i know you can't record mouse movements as trilogy doesn't send it, but acid must - to comply with the vst protocol - be able to control fader movements via vst automation (not via midi ccs). so at least you can draw it in by drawing in vst data rather than midi, which also could/should be smoother.

Chin

acid can do that vst automation thing, which i use on other synths with no problemo. but, for trilogy, nothing shows up at all. there are no vst automation options/parameters at all. nada.

i'm beginning to wonder whether acid is sending some spurious midi data that it shouldn't, because on the very odd occasion (twice at most) it allowed for a nice smooth tweak. but then it always hits a point where it flips the +/- button and it all goes gashment. i've checked the midi list, and even turned off my midi keyboard in case its a stuck button, but no joy at all.

another, possibly unrelated problem is that of tuning. i've found notes drifting off by as far as a semitone, during the course of playing projects back. its got to the point on two projects where the parts concerned are pitched +12 when i first open the project, but then hjave to change it to +13 to compensate when it changes. again, there is no pitch bend data recorded on any of the channels, and it does it whether the midi keyboard is on or off. aeeeeeeuuuurgh.

Icon_evil JEDIcrying
bare
I've opened it now and had a better look, I see what your talking about with the negeative values now. Pardon my slowness! Teef Yea when you tweak it with the mouse the values are positive but when you automate it with cc's they flip to negative like you said. So its nearly impossible to get the exact same tweaks from automation as mouse tweaking. There have been a few complaints on their user groups forums about the same issue but spectrasonics response was not helpful at all really.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/spe...ssage/9031

Sorry for contributing to your self inflicted hair loss problem...

To me it makes no sense to have different value mappings between GUI controls and external midi cc controls but they claim they did it to make the instrument more "musical". Pretty stupid if you ask me but what would I know...
what a load of balls that chap is talking. still least its not just acid that's affected. Baffled

i had a good tune going til i hit this brick wall though, major bummer. Roll

then i tried rewiring reason. big mistake indy. big mistake.
bare
Yea hate when stuff like that happens. I used to use trilogy a gud bit till I tried to get more into programming it properly and soon gave up with it cos it was such a pain in the arse. Like mentioned on here before its ok for electric or double bass but its synth sampled end doesnt come near to a decent soft synth. Maybe just try work the same line in with a better instrument like albino or sth. Best of luck with it anyways!

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