Jungle vs Drum & Bass

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(13th March 2012, 18:23)Ornette Wrote: So, re. drum & bass:
...
An early record I have found with the term is this one http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/vice_versa/vvrrs001/. Of course, drum & bass was originally a term for reggae dubwise from the 70's, but you already mentioned that...

Here's another one I've found - Longsy D's House Sound "Dance Fever (Drum & Bass Mix)"
http://www.rolldabeats.com/release/32008...ass/ruff16
 

Think I'll post the other side though, as I'm bloody well loving it  Hyper
-s9npXSVT5o
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- The Lazerdrome Memorial Page -

http://www.hardscore.com/articles/lazerdrome/
Focus on the early days of jungle, with Ragga Twins

http:// www dazeddigital.com/music/article/19750/1/ragga-twins-on-jungles-year-zero

Flinty Badman Wrote:... the more people would put more reggae influence into the music, which started to fill up and was eventually jungle. We never made the word jungle. As far as i’m concerned, I think the first person that used the word jungle on his record label was Paul Ibiza. We were just calling it ragga hardcore, ragga breaks.
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http://www.hardscore.com/articles/lazerdrome/
(13th March 2012, 18:23)Ornette Wrote: What you got to remember is that jungle started out whilst the music was still 'hardcore', and that drum & bass was an evolution of that. So jungle was always really the subset.

The first reference to 'drum & bass' I remember seeing was in a Criminal Minds interview in 1992 in Ravescene fanzine, talking about their Re-Baptised By Dub EP...

Here's that Criminal Minds article I was talking about!
– turns out it was actually from Blaze magazine issue 8 [February 1993]

   [Image: criminal%20drum%20base.jpg]

"In 1989 we had a natural progression into the Drum and Base scene. We released our first Drum and Base chewn called Dance Of the Parosites which sold over 2000 copies"

Looking through some of the other issues I have, it looks like this had a publication date of ~24/01/93 with the interview possibly being done some time around late dec... either way it was the first time I'd heard the term "drum & bass" being used in relation to the music, and from the way they describe defintely gives the impression they'd been calling it "drum & bass" for a while.

After that, the term started becoming more prevelant as we went into '93


As an addendum, here's a shot of a DJ Hype interview i've cited from quite a few times in the past... this taken from a seemingly previously unheard-of magazine called Labello?

[Image: hype%20hardcore.jpg]

Basically, this is the one where he refers to Rebel Without A Pause as the 'first' ever hardcore record, which listening to his early work you defintely get a sense of where he was coming from. But is he wrong? Do we best understand "hardcore" as being the continuation of what Public Enemy were doing? I would hazard, quite possibly.

listen: http://youtu.be/vaj3xAqzMno
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http://www.hardscore.com/articles/lazerdrome/
(20th March 2012, 08:52)Ornette Wrote: It's pretty much accepted that 'jungle' (certainly on the Back To The Old Skool forum) was coined by Paul Ibiza ...

From the term being born it captured people's imaginations and connoctations accumulated: the strain of living in an "urban jungle" perhaps; or racial ones such as "jungle bunnies" or "jungle music", long a slur to denote 'black' music (follow Jason oS's link to DOA); or more simply "tribal" connoctations of african dancing & drumming ...

At this point, early 1992, 'jungle techno' was simply something that referred to hardcore ...

But what must have began to happen was as 'jungle' took hold as a concept, so the term began to align itself with tunes that had a reggae influence



The Building Blocks of Boogie | Electrofunkroots
https://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/artic...oogie.html

"Back in mid-80s London, the term Boogie was used to describe a style of dance music, mainly from the early 80s, but also the late 70s, that was popular on the black scene ...

We never used the term in the North, although many of the same tracks had been massive ... We regarded them mainly as Disco Funk, or in some cases Electro-Funk ...

It was also an unfamiliar genre name in America, where these records had originated. London DJ and collector, Sean P, renowned for his encyclopaedic knowledge of Boogie, plus other forms of dance music, recalls some friends going into record shops in the US and receiving blank looks when they asked for Boogie; the staff even enquiring if they wanted recordings about ghosts! This misunderstanding was down to the fact that what we call the Bogeyman in the UK is the Boogeyman in the States.

The word itself has a somewhat dubious background. Here’s something I found online about its origin and evolution, written by American columnist, Cecil Adams:


Quote:“Boogie” seems to come, via a circuitous route, from the Latin Bulgarus, an inhabitant of Bulgaria. The Old French term boulgre was used to refer to a member of a sect of 11th-century Bulgarian heretics, and “bougre” first appears in the English writing in 1340 as a synonym for “heretic.” By the 16th century, “bougre” grew into “bugger,” a practitioner of vile and despicable acts including “buggery,” or sodomy. “Bogy” (or “bogie”) first appears in the 19th century as an appellation for the devil; later it came to be used for hobgoblins in general. Hence, the bogeyman, which may be the source of the use of “bogey” and “boogies” to mean “Negro”. Shortly after these usages became common (in the 1920s), there appeared boogie woogie music, and I guess you can figure out the rest.

So it seems that, with regards to black culture, boogie was originally a racist slur, which was intended to demonise black people, before it was adopted in connection with music and dancing by those it was meant to put down."


How interesting. History repeating itself?
_____________
- The Lazerdrome Memorial Page -

http://www.hardscore.com/articles/lazerdrome/
Chin
Been trying to finish watching that ^^ East Man, Kenny Ken, Uncle Dugs interview, I like it very much. I've been starting to watch a couple of the Dj Ron interviews on his youtube channel as well with similar historic angles shared by his peers.

Kenny Ken brings up this clash in the discussion.





..The Jungle Soundclash Grand Final was held at Roller Express on 16th July 1994. After the two semi finals on May 14th and June 18th the competition reached the final stage with Mickey Finn, Kenny Ken, DJ Rap and Devious Dee. The referees and master of ceremonies on the night were the A team, Moose and Five-O. It was down to you the Jungle Massive to decide who would become the champion and holder of the Lonsdale Jungle Soundclash Belt in 1994.

Many thanks to all the DJs who took part in the preliminary rounds and did not make it to the final.

The official Jungle Soundclash video shows all the electric atmosphere that made this one of the best parties of the year and a total sellout.

Remember this is now the UKs official Jungle Competition.


Tracklist:

Devious Dee
01. Worries in Da Dance - New Blood -- Mixed into The Licence - Krome & Time
02. Horns of The Ghetto - The Source (Jay-J Remix)
03. I Spy (Eye Nuh See) (feat. Simpleton) - DJ Monk
04. Sweet Vibrations - DMS & The BoneMan X
05. Original Nuttah (feat. UK Apachi) - Shy FX
06. Jah Set It - X Project
07. Code Red - Conquering Lion (94 Remix)
08. ????
09. Tom & Jerry - Maximun Style
10. The Way (VIP Remix) - DJ Taktix -- Mixed into Valley of the Shadows - Origin Unknown
11. Dreadie - Unknown Artist

Micky Finn
01. Some Justice 95 (Arsonist) - Urban Shakedown (Micky Finn VIP Dubplate)
02. Worries in Da Dance - New Blood
03. Idiot Sound - New Blood
04. Dred Bass - Dead Dred
05. Dred Bass - Dead Dred (B2B Remix)
06. Code Red - Conquering Lion (Wild Apachi Mix)
07. Banana Boat Man - Conquering Lion
08. Hunt, Seek, Find & Kill - Deadly D (Unreleased)
09. Nice Tune - Dem 2 Ruff

DJ Rap
01. Length & Strength - Rob Andrews ‎-- Mixed briefly with Coca Cola Bottle Shape (feat. Simpleton) - Red Light
02. Now U Know - Dub Rush -- Mixed with Project 1 (Remix) - Tango
03. Incredible (feat. General Levy) - M. Beat -- Mixed with ????
04. Calling The People - A-Zone
05. Let It Roll - DJ Crystl
06. Spiritual Aura - Engineers Without Fears (DJ Rap's Get Raw Mix)
07. Burial - Leviticus
08. Original Nuttah (feat. UK Apachi) - Shy FX

Kenny Ken
01. ????
02. Air Freshener - Tom & Jerry
03. Stamina - Conquering Lion
04. Code Red - Conquering Lion (94 Remix)
05. Length & Strength - Rob Andrews -- Mixed briefly with Super Hero - The House Crew
06. Time Stretch - Roni Size (93 Mix)
07. Worries In The Dance - New Blood (DJ Stretch Remix)
08. Sweet Vibrations - DMS & The BoneMan X
09. Code Black - Conquering Lion (Remix)
10. ????
They bring up rare groove tunes & vibes as influences within dj sets. Rare groove was always a term I read about back in the day, but haven't investigated much within a retrospective, dj style context particular to Norman Jay, & earlier influences of course. Kenny Ken still refers to jungle / dnb as house music, which can be still apt as well right? On the topic of Dj Rap, via 1995's "Journeys Through The Land Of Drum 'N' Bass", just the fact that she breaks the set down with the inclusion of Carl Craig's / Urban Culture "The Wonders of Wishing" - an actual house tune - within a jungle / dnb mix has always been mind blowing to me. I didn't own much Dj Rap stuff at all, but that mix cd was quite the eye opener for me personally. Still a glorious moment imo.

Of course a few years before the liquid dnb, house 4/4, break down & build production era that was to come later.


(29th June 2017, 21:26)Ornette Wrote: What you got to remember is that jungle started out whilst the music was still 'hardcore', and that drum & bass was an evolution of that. So jungle was always really the subset.

As an addendum, here's a shot of a DJ Hype interview i've cited from quite a few times in the past... this taken from a seemingly previously unheard-of magazine called Labello?

[Image: hype%20hardcore.jpg]

Basically, this is the one where he refers to Rebel Without A Pause as the 'first' ever hardcore record, which listening to his early work you defintely get a sense of where he was coming from. But is he wrong? Do we best understand "hardcore" as being the continuation of what Public Enemy were doing? I would hazard, quite possibly.

listen: http://youtu.be/vaj3xAqzMno




^^ Similarly, if you haven't heard this Luke McMillan / Dj Producer interview on early hardcore techno & hiphop, I'd really like to hear more of the discussion myself.  Xyxthumbs 


https://www.mixcloud.com/WiseupRadioshow...re-techno/


..Academic literature and theory on hip-hop played a crucial part in different aspects of my ethnography and analysis on hardcore techno. This podcast will outline the role of hip-hop in hardcore techno. And it will enable you to listen to the music at stake. You will be guided by The DJ Producer (Luke McMillan), a pioneer of the hip-hop influenced side of the genre. He will talk about 30 years of experience in hardcore permeated and spiced up through hip-hop elements and techniques. Techno and hip-hop crossed paths as some individuals started to use hip-hop samples and turntablism techniques in gabber and hardcore. This is due to the musical background of some producers and DJs who were socialized with hip-hop as teenagers. As a consequence, they integrated their musical knowledge and techniques into hardcore. This even became a subgenre called UK hardcore with labels like Deathchant, Rebelscum, or Audio Damage who made this style popular..


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