[Theory & Premise] "Progressive House" is Entirely Post-Punk

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I haven't delved into Route 8 (Budapest, Hungary) territory for a bit. Route 8 has always been a past, QUALITY, deep / tech house reference over the years.

Checking recent Route 8 offerings via his own This Is Our Time imprint, sees the man DEEP into progressive house, balearic vibes. I'm not mad at it. GREAT listens!


https://thisisourtime.bandcamp.com/album...experiment
https://thisisourtime.bandcamp.com/album/signed-sealed
https://thisisourtime.bandcamp.com/album...lanet-rash
https://soundcloud.com/route8/route-8-tbilisi2019
https://soundcloud.com/rolofm/ourtime-w-...8-12-08-20
https://soundcloud.com/buttersessions/bu...89-route-8






GRACE JONES TRIBUTE MIX By Roger Paiva

Track List:

01 - This is (Original)
02 - Williams' Blood (Aeroplane Radio Remix)
03 - Pull Up To The Bumper (Joey Negro Bumper To Bumper Mix)
04 - Feel Up (Danny Tenaglia Mix)
05 - I've Seen That Face Before (Libertango) (DJ Hell Berlin Mix)
06 - Slave To The Rhythm (DJ Friction Remix)
07 - Love You To Life (Cagedbaby & Guy Williams Paradise 45 Rework)
08 - Amado Mio (The Brazilian Mix)
09 - Slave To The Rhythm (Acapella)
10 - Sunset Sunrise (Groove Armada - Lazy Moon Mashup)
11 - La Vie En Rose (Disco Syndicate Mix)


https://factorydance.bandcamp.com/album/...-1980-1987
https://factorydance.bandcamp.com/album/fac-dance-02


Tracklist:

01. 0:00 Dirty Channels - Born In Douala [TAKE IT EASY]
02. 3:00 Seven Davis Jr. - P.A.R.T.Y. [APRON]
03. 6:00 ID - ID
04. 9:00 DJ Dealer - Church Work [LOOK AT YOU]
05. 15:00 Avon Stringer - Get A Move On [PLAY IT DOWN (MADE 2 PLAY)]
06. 17:30 Kiwi - Llama [DFTD (DEFECTED)]
07. 21:30 Groove Armada - You Got To [MODA BLACK]
08. 25:00 Loco Dice - Under Your Skin (Bambounou Blue Remix) [DESOLAT]
09. 31:00 Santos - Expression 727 [LET ME UNDERSTAND]
10. 35:00 UNER - BassBoot [KNM]
11. 40:00 The B-52's - Planet Claire
12. 45:00 Jimmy Castor Bunch - Troglodyte (Cave Man) (ID Remix)
13. 50:00 Dimitri From Stoke On Trent - I Wanna Be Your Lobster
14. 55:00 The Martinez Brothers - Tree Town [CUTTIN' HEADZ]
15. 59:00 Jaksan - Might As Well [FARRIS WHEEL]
16. 1:05:00 Cajmere & Gene Farris ft. Karen Incognito - Swing Set [CAJUAL]
17. 1:08:00 3 Winans Brothers ft. The Clark Sisters - Dance (Mike Dunn Gospel Re-Touch) [VEGA]
18. 1:11:30 Miss Kittin & The Hacker - Frank Sinatra (ID Remix) [ZYX]
19. 1:17:00 Tanera - Magic Underwear
20. 1:21:00 Dead or Alive - You Spin Me Round (Like A Record) (Murder Mix)
21. 1:23:00 &ME - Garden [KEINEMUSIK]
22. 1:27:30 Bryan Kessler - Fun Is Fun [TRICK]
23. 1:31:00 The Outhere Brothers - Don't Stop (Wiggle Wiggle)
24. 1:33:00 Demuir - Philippine Sunrise (Lady Blacktronika Sunset Mix) [HEIST]
25. 1:38:00 DJ Koze - XTC [PAMPA]
26. 1:43:00 Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Relax (New York Mix) [ZTT]
27. 1:48:00 Snap! - The Power (ID Remix) [ARISTA]
28. 1:51:00 Felix Da Housecat X Chris Trucher - Thee Trk! (Honey Dijon Re-Edit) [CLASSIC MUSIC]
29. 1:54:00 Loleatta Holloway - Catch Me On The Rebound (ID Remix) [SALSOUL]
30. 1:58:00 Floorplan - Song Like This [AUS]
31. 2:01:30 Dachshund - Direct [GRUUV]
32. 2:06:00 Nyra - Sisco Visco [CANOE]
w/ Rhythm Controll - My House (In Beginning, There Was Jack... Acappella) [CATCH A BEAT]
33. 2:12:00 Depeche Mode - Just Can't Get Enough (ID Remix)
34. 2:14:00 Moodymann - Shades Of Jae [PEACEFROG]
35. 2:16:00 Gary Beck - Get Down [SAVED]
36. 2:19:00 2000 And One & Sandy Huner vs. Brothers' Vibe - Baile Bass Groove (Vocal Mix) [BANG!BANG!]
37. 2:25:00 Giorgio Moroder - The Chase [CASABLANCA (UMG)]
38. 2:28:00 Paul Johnson - Feel My M.F. Bass [DANCE MANIA (STRUT)]
39. 2:30:00 Handbraekes - Discow [ED BANGER]
40. 2:32:00 Chris Carrier - Flower Of Happiness [DEEPLOMATIC]
41. 2:35:00 ID - ID
42. 2:38:00 New Order - Blue Monday [FACTORY (WARNER MUSIC)]
43. 2:41:00 Sexual Harrassment - I Need A Freak [KLASSE]
44. 2:42:00 Yazoo - Don't Go (ID Remix) [MUTE]
45. 2:44:00 Satoshi Tomiie - Bassline [NO.19]
w/ Martin Luther King - I Have A Dream [20TH CENTURY]
46. 2:51:00 Nathan Fake - The Sky Was Pink (James Holden Remix) [BORDER COMMUNITY]
47. 2:57:00 Felix Da Housecat - Frankie Meets Pauline
48. 3:01:00 Earth People - Dance (Kerri Chandler Centro Fly Mix) [IBADAN]
49. 3:04:00 Pet Shop Boys - West End Girls (Dance Dub Remix) [COLUMBIA (SONY)]
50. 3:10:00 Tronik Youth - Bell Common Tunnel (Damon Jee Remix) [NEIN]
51. 3:13:00 Scissor Sisters - Comfortably Numb (Fatboy Slim Remix) [POLYDOR]
52. 3:16:00 Eric Prydz vs. Pink Floyd - Proper Education [DATA/PRYDA]
53. 3:19:00 The Deepshakerz - Walk In The Sky [CAJUAL]
54. 3:22:00 The Deepshakerz - Baby Doll [CAJUAL]
55. 3:24:00 Edwin Birdsong - Cola Bottle Baby
56. 3:27:00 3 Winans Brothers ft. The Clark Sisters - Dance (Louie Vega Dance Ritual Mix) [LW]
57. 3:30:00 Isaac Hayes - I Can't Turn Around (Ron Hardy Edit) [CONCORD]
Progressive House is actually in continuum with classical music.

Post punk is simply in continuum with punk music before it. Or baroque.
For me personally, I guess you could say, and all of us can say, for that matter, any theory is diametrically opposed to the subject matter. This means it cannot exactly fit. The philosophical conundrum behind continuum and comparison plagued philosophers and historians for decades; pick up a TV show from Michael Portillo, for instance, and you can see just how [indirectly] his attire doesn't fit with the history being presented.

The issue we are really having here, is not whether anything is fit to be anything - classical, prog house, both could be equally valid. But even on different days, this is about the difference between history and "art history". Art history is modern history, a specific type of understanding that tries to create new lenses for old images of history itself.

And that's a dangerous thing, isn't it? Just look at, on a light note, how many people protested or abhorred Banksy's attempts at impressionist art. Then, on a heavier note, look what the real protesters did as artistic statement - or rather all they could manage - they rioted in the streets, sloganeered, and tore memorial statues down.

The price we are paying for modern history being taught in schools over regular history is as much as an ADHD sufferer can throw at it. It was well documented most kids of my generation - boomer to millenial - found traditional history "very" boring. They kept teaching the same old, same old. There was no black or Chinese/Japanese history. There was no colour; no culture. For that, you'd have to go where I went later - the OU. How does this relate to the theoretical pursuit? Well it's all about perspective, isn't it. There is no perspective on fundamental understanding. Fundamental understanding is built on a primarily subjective basis.

In this nature, it can only really be said fundamental = aka important understanding - is all that truly exists. Objectivity is a distilling of fundamental understanding. Sure you know this, most people do. But I find it good to reason about in this topic, as there's not that much theory in here just yet. We normally stick with stuff like "rip it up and start again", "retromania", "the sex revolts", "energy flash" to quote the titles of four of Simon Rennie Reynolds acclaimed (and in the case of The Sex Revolts from Statto, revolted against) books. Ideological Nazism isn't our thing anyway.

It's fun to talk about and speculate about this stuff, while enjoying great music in an archive format. I hope more people join us. For now, we have progressive house. More interesting than bleep tedium of bleep techno, that's for sure. What was it with bleep techno? I've never understood that. Like Goldie's comment about "not wanting to bounce around like a glowstick-toting knob head in a rave full of mirrors and foam", bleep tedium is bad. In fact, I'd say it is one of the biggest forms of musical torture out there. Crap techno. Only The Black Dog do it well, and successfully.
^^ great post sir!

I like your points about history vs art history. I totally get it. My mother took art history in university years back, just as filler credit. We'd talk about the history she was learning. There's aspects of our parents you don't normally get to see, like my mother's joy in learning about random art history in her classes. We're much too wound up in our own to see what our parents are on about sometimes right? My mother, fulfilling her duties, put up with my "tortured creative" artist emo bullshit forever. Lol. Not cool. It was dumb - as we can all attest to our own disgraces. I was legit, an asshole. But hey, in return, that is parenting. I'm grateful. I can still mope sometimes, but not so much. I stopped being an asshole.

I talk about funk a lot. My earliest encounters with dance / pop music shaped much of me now - beats, beats, beats. In the same way as i LOVE 80's freestyle music, body movement has always been key when dissecting music. Dj's dont dance they say, but I threw down. Maaan. Anything funky that gets the body moving, rules my impetus. Disco, funk within (pre)punk or post has often been overlooked for the confrontation, politics, and imagery. In actuality, dancing is innocent. Why complicate it? Bug the fuck out. It has always been a meeting of cultures, perspectives, and of course, subcultures, from hip-hop onwards - which once again, had a post-punk angle as well, disco, funk, dub root, etc. Drum machines changed the world. Bass continues to defines us. Bleeps? Mere trimmings to the meal.

This Bluetech (San Diego, CA) stuff is really good.

Listening as I post. Smile


https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/album/sine...remastered
Bliss Inc. is fantastic.




https://radiantlove.bandcamp.com/album/b...the-planet
https://magicwire.bandcamp.com/album/radiant-reality
Likewise.




https://radiantlove.bandcamp.com/album/p...rons-theme
Can we talk about Steve Hillage? Faves.. thoughts, experiences?


the basslines in "Talking To The Sun - [MadDisco Edit]" is some of the illist. No tabs of acid needed. Severely implied tho.






https://bluetech.bandcamp.com/album/evan...ubmersible
I've mentioned how much my 6 uncles influenced my music introductions as an extremely young lad. From reggae, metal, punk, my first time hearing Love and Rockets, and more, all found rifling through their vinyl and cassette collections.

One of my uncles had early Duran Duran on vinyl. I stole the lp. True story. I was mesmerized by the disco basslines.

I had a convo about John Taylor once. My premise is that for a then, late 70's era, punk kid who reportedly taught himself how to play bass by mimicking disco records, he easily could have been in any funky, post-punkish band of the day circa early 80's. He really is a great bass player. I give him props.




(13th May 2017, 10:02)Statto Wrote:
(13th May 2017, 09:39)+ToRMeNT+ Wrote: hmm..  I've heard in the past where Mick Jones would say ideas alluding to  "...acid house is/was the new punk rock" during Big Audio Dynamite's earlier hey day, also referencing the DIY element of acid house.  Anybody with gear can bang out a tune.. which still persists of course.  For me, maybe the dissection would be the "diy" element to dub?..if there could be a diy element back then, considering dub needed technology, mixing boards, and gear to have it happen.  Perhaps maybe not as accessible?  I'll think about that.. heh.  Would you agree?

Acid house as punk, no, I don't think so. It has the energy but not the rip it up and start again attitude. I think old school hardcore is a better fit... "crap music and we don't give a shit" Punk

A dub continuum is something else. Simon Reynolds has written about that I think. Which includes PiL and the Slits, On-U Sound post punk, and latterly dubstep and stuff.

no, oldskool hardcore has nothing to do with the rebellion of punk. This is where You, Reynolds and Naphta back in the day got it all wrong re: Wax Doctor, 4 Hero etc. It's lo fi don't give a fuck attitude was incidental, not deliberate.

There's also another irony here, in that whilst post-punk later reabsorbed aspects of prog rock, jungle and garage took influences from fusion (which in essence was the equivalent to prog rock for the nuum.) oldskool hardcore can only and only be considered punk in the sense of a rebellion against polished plastic American soul. But this did not equate to rip it up and start again, more back 2 basics.
There's a reason why UK garage referenced NY deep house and not homegrown English prog. Completely different crowds, socially, racially, you name it. ex-Punks in the nuum have always been an incidental coincidence, not much else.
(7th March 2023, 08:25)thirdform Wrote: no, oldskool hardcore has nothing to do with the rebellion of punk. This is where You, Reynolds and Naphta back in the day got it all wrong re: Wax Doctor, 4 Hero etc. It's lo fi don't give a fuck attitude was incidental, not deliberate.

You could say the same about punk. "Crap music and we don't give a shit" was an outward stance. "You think it's crap but we don't give a shit what you think". Punks never thought their music was crap. But they did think it was unnecessary to have a mass of equipment and technical ability. "We can make music with a crappy guitar and three chords" (with an additional "so fuck off"). That original inspiration of punk translates quite well to: "I can make music on a crappy computer with five seconds worth of sample time."

Having said that, and while theorizing is often fun, I do think trying to fit things into nuums is pretty much journalistic bollocks. Imposing patterns with hindsight on events which were basically just a lot of people getting excited and doing stuff. So-called "movements" hardly ever are.
hmm I'm not so sure. A lot of those oldskool hardcore bods were technical wizzes with their constraints, which is why most prog house sounds infinitely more dated. 93 reinforced music was miles ahead of the music that Sasha was playing. So I would say the punk analogy breaks down.

compare and contrast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TudUY_Bg6Y

with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxIqAso2z8Y

Andy Weatherall is a good case study actually, by 93 he was playing full on techno and acid. Which was probably the most faithful continuation of post-punk spirit.
^^ I like the contrast you presented there thirdform, with the Metal Heads tune vs Spooky. And I can see your point in contrasting early hardcore production vs standard, conventional house styles @ the time.

I listened to the new Orbital, "Optical Delusion" lp the other day (February 2023 release), and have been listening to a bit of Underworld as well which I generally get back into every now and then, including later Underworld lp's that I hadn't heard. Orbital is interesting to talk about, they still have their trademark production style, but I find myself liking their darker sounds more, rather than their lighter angles. Orbital could easily be doing dark clubby stuff at the moment and do quite well considering the current climate. Orbital & their punky roots.. Just my thoughts.

Listening back to Orbital, perhaps invoking Psychic Tv parallels in places? The majority of "Sirens" was Weatherall & Genesis collabs.






1. E-Male
2. Dreamlined
3. L.I.E.S.
4. Tribal
5. Pregnant Pause
6. Pain
7. Everything Has To Happen
8. How Does E Feel?
9. Re-Mind



00:00 A2 Horror House (Dj Sugar Jay Remix)
06:45 A1 Money for E... (Dave Ball Remix)
12:09 C S.M.I.L.E. (Greedy Beat Syndicate Remix)
20:15 B Bliss (Andy Flaconer Remix)
25:16 D2 IC Water (DJ Global Remix)
32:09 D1 Stick Insect (Evil Eddie Remix)
Steve Hillage is 71 years old.

In this Dommune, System 7 vid he was 62.

From the youtube comments.. Steve Hillage was already a "boring old fart" before the Punk revolution in 1977. Yet here he is, decades later and still being creative and relevant. Rock on!

heh.

@ 20 mins onward in the 2018 interview video, Miquette & Hillage discuss their Kraftwerk dj experience, acid house, Oakenfold & Alex Patterson introductions.



I used to volunteer for an animal rescue for a few years. I then adopted one of the dogs last year in April which I've spent a lot of time with in previous years. She's a rather large 7 year old German Shepherd now. She went to the vet today, got vaccine renewals and such, was told to lose weight (.. treats treats, cut down on treats..), but other wise looking good. Before I adopted her, she'd occasionally spend the night @ my place, or we'd go on road trips everywhere with her. It was fun. That's why she lives with me now. She's an adventure partner. Who needs to lose weight. lol

When she'd sleep over before I adopted her, I used to play Dj Healer / Traumprinz / Prime Minister of Doom and related aliases mixes for her while we slept, or attempted to sleep via Shepherd hours of napping, repeatedly waking me up, then being up @ 5AM to go out, then have her breakfast etc. She still has that same schedule.

I'll have memories of Traumprinz mixes and such, while she slept on my bed, trying to get her to relax overnight. She sleeps fine now. This tune is fire.


prog house isn't really my thing. I can appreciate it as club music but my root into techno was dave angel, colin dale/faver, Carl Cox etc etc tapes in hardcore tape packs.

You are bang on the money about the indie dance crossover, well in London at least. Most of the balearic guys originated from that circuit.

There is a funny anecdote in one of them bpm documentaries where Dave Angel is like they (progressive boys) slow down techno and call it forward thinking, but I was playing it before them. Made me giggle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYo2R-xFC_A&t=656s

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