UK viewers "Who you callin Nigger" ( channel 4 )

"Hey buddy, you got a dead cat in there or what?"

"Fuck you, asshole"

[Macc]

Don't, Matt..........

*futile attempt at resistance*

This board was created for ALL kinds of discussion, not just music.

Don't have a go at Naphta just because he argues his case well.


Let's just make sure that ALL people have a right to discuss ALL issues whatever your colour, race or class, it's all about knowledge and facts in the end, that is all. your colour, race or class does not give you any special edge in discussions.

That's what's so good about this board, I have no idea the colour of people's skin, their religion, class or race. And I like it that way.

BTW.

It's good to see something other than Drum & Bass being discussed.

the problems of slavery have never been rectified,adressed & dealt with in any which way!

That's the main issue at the heart of everything when your dealing with 'Nigga this & Nigga dat' topic.When slavery was abolished no system was put in place 2 educate the slaves & their offspring or even the generations that followed that.

No education leads to lack of job opportunities which leads 2 state dependency & drug dependency which in turn leads to self-loathing & a loathing of everyone else in society.

Vicious cycle hey?

Now before everyone starts pointing the finger as if all Black people are unsuccesful layabouts who are good for nothing & dumb as a mule the fastest growing group within intellectual instituitions within THE mighty U.S.of A is African Americans,who are finally overcoming the vast legacy of slavery after decades & decades of HARD work from community leaders/workers & families & to some extent the American govt. who finally realise that it's more beneficial to have an educated,tax-paying working class as opposed to a drug-abusing,arm robbery expert,illiterate underbelly which will end up costing the state billions from support & prisons & upkeep while incarcerated.

Hopefully the british govt. & those in power clock on to this very soon before things get too out of control,but it's highly doubtful.

All I can say is I wish we had a British 'Bill Cosby' who would really tell it like it is & pull no punches!!

The man was spot on with his scathing remarks recently.

The man was spot on with his scathing remarks recently.

didnt he say something like "the black ppl are not doing their part of the deal" or something? dont remember what he meant with it exactly......

"Come with me if you want to live!"

the problems of slavery have never been rectified,adressed & dealt with in any which way!

That's the main issue at the heart of everything when your dealing with 'Nigga this & Nigga dat' topic.When slavery was abolished no system was put in place 2 educate the slaves & their offspring or even the generations that followed that.

No education leads to lack of job opportunities which leads 2 state dependency & drug dependency which in turn leads to self-loathing & a loathing of everyone else in society.

Vicious cycle hey?

Now before everyone starts pointing the finger as if all Black people are unsuccesful layabouts who are good for nothing & dumb as a mule the fastest growing group within intellectual instituitions within THE mighty U.S.of A is African Americans,who are finally overcoming the vast legacy of slavery after decades & decades of HARD work from community leaders/workers & families & to some extent the American govt. who finally realise that it's more beneficial to have an educated,tax-paying working class as opposed to a drug-abusing,arm robbery expert,illiterate underbelly which will end up costing the state billions from support & prisons & upkeep while incarcerated.

Hopefully the british govt. & those in power clock on to this very soon before things get too out of control,but it's highly doubtful.

All I can say is I wish we had a British 'Bill Cosby' who would really tell it like it is & pull no punches!!

The man was spot on with his scathing remarks recently.

Yeah, it's the hispanic immigrants who're poor and uneducated now in the US and some black communities are racist towards them. I guess it all depends who's holding the whip.

Nick

ummm...i don't agree with what macc said on page one AT ALL.

while i certainly agree that in this day and age there's a problem with a "victim culture" in our society ("supersize me" is a great example of this), i don't think that the institutionalized racial tension/race riots in countries like britain and elsewhere are examples of that.

i think it's a byproduct of colonialization, and socio-economic factors particular to colonialism. what do you think is going to happen when you COLONIZE another people? what do you think is going to happen when you force another, totally autonomous culture to learn a new language, take them from their homes, enslave them in their own country, make them see their world and condition through the eyes of the dominant majority?

what do you think happens on a psychological level when people construct their notions of subjectivity, of themselves, by seeing themselves as "the other", by seeing themselves as the lesser, the negative, the "not-whole" the "not us"?

throw in economics, and you've got yourself a situation dying to boil over. also, immigration patterns. are people forced to settle in specific areas when they immigrate to england? isn't there massive unemployment in the north?

alpha omega: i don't completely think you're spot on with the slavery thing...i think it's important to remember that what often gets glossed over is, there was a highly vigorous and existing slave trade WITHIN africa, between africans.

k...read briefly through pages 4...

this quibbling between "what kind of slavery is worse" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

slavery is ALWAYS first and foremost an economic condition. it is the penultimate expression of capitalism and the disenfranchisement of your labour.

i think the racial/cultural implications comes after this fact in order to provide the impetus and justification for said enslavement.

i also think it's really insulting to be splitting hairs between "indentured labour" and "slavery".

this board was created for all kinds of discussion, not just music.

don't have a go at naphta just because he argues his case well.

thank you unsane! i'm not even trying to start an argument, just trying to explore the subject of the original post...

let's just make sure that all people have a right to discuss all issues whatever your colour, race or class, it's all about knowledge and facts in the end, that is all. your colour, race or class does not give you any special edge in discussions.

nor the fact that you studied history in college (i hope). pretty depressing to think that my limited education might actually prove a disadvantage in life (i.e. people refusing to continue a discussion because one of us went to college).

that's what's so good about this board, i have no idea the colour of people's skin, their religion, class or race. and i like it that way.

btw.

it's good to see something other than drum & bass being discussed.

fucking right. respect to unsane for thinking like a true subvert!

this quibbling between "what kind of slavery is worse" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

slavery is ALWAYS first and foremost an economic condition. it is the penultimate expression of capitalism and the disenfranchisement of your labour.

i think the racial/cultural implications comes after this fact in order to provide the impetus and justification for said enslavement.

YES!!!

Unfortunately peeps seem to believe that anyone who asserts this is somehow disrespecting those who suffered the African slave trade... but IMO, recognising that a particular horror had occurred before or that there was a precedent for it doesn't mean that it should lessen the impact, effect or sympathy for that horror... it doesn't have to be absolutely unique in order for it to be a crime.

I absolutely assert that racism - like religious intolerence - is almost always founded on economics - on the desire of the dominant minority to rule the majority and to exploit them economically. Hence all the fucked-up theorising about the supposed superiority of the Victorian White Man - much like today's (never-ending) 'War On terror', it provides an excuse - a justification - for seizing economic power.

can i get a whon whon for my man:

I find it difficult to believe that we've got six pages into this thread and we've come to the absolutely STARTLING conclusion that... shock horror... "slavery is bad."

I find it difficult to believe that we've got six pages into this thread and we've come to the absolutely STARTLING conclusion that... shock horror... "slavery is bad."

I know. THE AWESOME power of online debate.........uncovered.

I know. THE AWESOME power of online debate.........uncovered.

Heh, I just thought it was pretty funny, no disrespect to anyone involved

Heh, I just thought it was pretty funny, no disrespect to anyone involved

Yup, I guess that so far.. we have succeeded in demonstrating that this is indeed a sensitive subject!!

why west indians (in a lot of cases) do not have the close-knit families that asians for example have?

I had the close knit familiy as do many of my first geneartion peers... but we don't have a unifing religion to hold these families together...... I believe that's the key...

Likewise,infact whoever suggested that Blacks/west indians don't have close families is waaaay off the mark.On top of that you know have many indian families killing one another because they're daughters are marrying outside of the religion/race & culture which is something unheard within our community.

Some ppl scoffed at my suggestion of correcting the wrongs of the damage done with slavery & what could be achieved but based on the evidence where the effort has been made to adress problems a lot of positives could be achieved.

For instance -Athletics/Sports & the entertainment industries

Here are 2 industries where the establishment has done it's best to support any 'Black' talent & give it an avenue to shine & make a mark,so much so that the common stereotype that all black folks are good for is singing/dancing & running or kicking a ball is commonspread.

As a result of the support in the markets blacks now dominate both areas in a major way-take sprinting/basketball or hiphop/r&b for example-

Now if the same kind of effort could be made from the governments & at the grassroots community level then this kind of superhuman success could be emulated within the business/intellectual world by more blacks & ultimately more ethnic minorities.

Isn't it?

why west indians (in a lot of cases) do not have the close-knit families that asians for example have?

I had the close knit familiy as do many of my first geneartion peers... but we don't have a unifing religion to hold these families together...... I believe that's the key...

Some ppl scoffed at my suggestion of correcting the wrongs of the damage done with slavery & what could be achieved but based on the evidence where the effort has been made to adress problems a lot of positives could be achieved.

For instance -Athletics/Sports & the entertainment industries

Here are 2 industries where the establishment has done it's best to support any 'Black' talent & give it an avenue to shine & make a mark,so much so that the common stereotype that all black folks are good for is singing/dancing & running or kicking a ball is commonspread.

As a result of the support in the markets blacks now dominate both areas in a major way-take sprinting/basketball or hiphop/r&b for example-

Now if the same kind of effort could be made from the governments & at the grassroots community level then this kind of superhuman success could be emulated within the business/intellectual world by more blacks & ultimately more ethnic minorities.

Do you think the fact that black people have been particularly successful in the fields of music and sport is down to 'backing' though, or do you think the people have made it because of their talent and dedication ? Not through getting leg-ups ?

Basically I'm wondering if there is anything holding black people back from doing well in primary and secondary education as things stand in the UK right now ?

Of course, financial contraints can affect alot of people hoping to go onto 3rd level... maybe this is what you are talking about - for the government to support/sponsor promising students at that stage ?

At this thread. How did I miss it?

Naphta owning it!

never again






look at all the I'm using

My primary point was this: Slavery is Slavery, and no amount of revisonist bollocks can erase that. Africans have always enslaved other Africans, just as Europeans have always enslaved other Europeans. Accepting this FACT doesn't detract from the scale of the crimes committed by European and American slavers in any way whatsoever IMO...... but it should go some way to correcting the dangerous myth that Slavery is somehow the evil preserve of the white man... or that a state of pathetic victimhood/enslavement is the natural state of the black man. THis is bullshit, and the myths borne from it are directly responsible for many of the racial problems that people in England appear to be facing today pages...