a jolly hating thread

Maybe if you guys were confident enough in your own tastes you wouldn't be offended when scart analyses them

I think Prince is cool.

right, everything that is not "pop" stems from people's intellectual inferiority complexes

no, genres are a dumb way to look at it. i think of it as intellect versus emotion - i like intellectual music when it's got emotional appeal to back it up, and i like emotional music without any intellect to it, but i don't get any enjoyment out of music that's purely intellectual. i'm not preaching gospel here, i just have strong opinions!

intellect vs. emotion sounds a bit dramatic. in 99% of cases there's both.

but fair enough. yet i'd rather think of intellectual music as something like stockhausen, cage and alban berg - not exactly zappa... he did grand pop tunes! peaches en regalia, uncle remus, etc.

maybe if you guys were confident enough in your own tastes you wouldn't be offended when scart analyses them

what's that got to do with anything? i like abba + zappa () - big feckin deal.

what's that got to do with anything? i like abba + zappa () - big feckin deal.

i can't think of any other reason why anyone would call him a 'retard' or whatever. none of it was particularly offensive or anything, so it just comes across to me like they aren't secure enough to be confident in their own tastes in the face of someone elses perfectly valid criticisms.

[Statto]

not exactly zappa... he did grand pop tunes! peaches en regalia, uncle remus, etc.

he's clearly influenced by pop music and working within it as a style, but the arrangement and execution and level of technicality is very jazz. the jazz is like is stuff with more of a pop approach (herbie hancock - head hunters is the #1 record that proves me wrong about my jazz prejudices ), so naturally i don't like zappa

i hate John Lennon.

dont really like Zappa either.

infact the sixties in terms of rock makes me think of dogs shitting and long smelly hair.

what's that got to do with anything? i like abba + zappa () - big feckin deal.

i can't think of any other reason why anyone would call him a 'retard' or whatever. none of it was particularly offensive or anything, so it just comes across to me like they aren't secure enough to be confident in their own tastes in the face of someone elses perfectly valid criticisms.

he wasn't called a retard, his thoughts were called retarded

maybe because...

complication is evidence of fear.

...is just a smartass thing to say

but the arrangement and execution and level of technicality is very jazz

true. but that's good! not everybody likes simplicism. there's good minimal techno and good jazz. i don't care about the level of sophistication as long as i feel musically connected.

infact the sixties in terms of rock makes me think of dogs shitting and long smelly hair.

thanks for the cuddle.

well ive never liked jazz, wouldnt go as far as to say hate it but i reallydont like it.

that i will always love you really fucking hurts me (esp the house mix)
Ive always hated under the bridge by the rhcp
music sounds better with you
edit oh and that 8 minute meatloaf thing (i wont do 'that')?. An hilarious prank at the uni was to stick 2 quid in the jukebox, put that on 10 times and feck off (not by me i hasten to add, ive suffered, same morons who think setting thee fire alarms off at 4 in the morning is a top buzz).

theres not very much i hate..., outside of jazz

out of interest, scart, ive always found myself piling on far too much stuff on my tunes, maybe thats why. need to do a 6 minute roller.

good psychotherapy in the future man

your music makes me feel the same way, like you're scared to repeat anything because that would prove you were stupid :P

hahaha, well, while we're all psychologically probing for answers here - are you sure you're not just projecting your own fears of making "wanky" music onto others' music?

'cause my and a few others' (that i'm friends with) moods when making intricate or complex stuff is more like: "aaah sweet, put this part here, fuck yeah, aggh, into THIS.... hmmm.... BAM!!"

NOT something like: "this is too obvious, i need to twist it all up.... yeah, hmm, this part here, way too predictable, where are those 100 new drum sounds?"

personally speaking, i love making the most repetitive simple stuff all the way to quite intricate stuff so i don't understand why you're convinced complication is about "fear", especially when Zappa, the reason for this mini-topic, fills the whole spectrum too. from schmaltzy doo-wop all the way to The Black Page.

i'll give ya credit on the toilet humor though, it's actually what kept me from fully going nuts into his catalog for like 5 years...

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

what is it with you guys and this endless pointless whos cock is bigger fairytales.?

give it up.

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

what's that got to do with anything? i like abba + zappa () - big feckin deal.

i can't think of any other reason why anyone would call him a 'retard' or whatever. none of it was particularly offensive or anything, so it just comes across to me like they aren't secure enough to be confident in their own tastes in the face of someone elses perfectly valid criticisms.

scart's an easy target since he's up for debate, stirs shit up all the time anyway, and there's never any hard feelings. if a mild-mannered and gentler poster said that, then maybe diplomacy would be more appropriate... :d

where was i.... "complication = fear" or whatever it was, is fucking retarded! it comes off to me like reverse elitism that's statistically decided upon once someone hears a certain number of elements that aren't conventionally arranged. it goes back to our jazz debates, where iirc i thought we all agreed that at any level of complication there can be emotional connections.

free your mind, maaaan.

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

what is it with you guys and this endless pointless whos cock is bigger fairytales.?

give it up.

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

eat my shit. it's an interesting topic!

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

what is it with you guys and this endless pointless whos cock is bigger fairytales.?

give it up.

lorks alordy my pants are on fire.

eat my shit. it's an interesting topic!

@Ashes:

I hate reggea. A lot.

are you sure you're not just projecting your own fears of making "wanky" music onto others' music?

'cause my and a few others' (that i'm friends with) moods when making intricate or complex stuff is more like: "aaah sweet, put this part here, fuck yeah, aggh, into THIS.... hmmm.... BAM!!"

i know what you mean...hell, i've made 'wanky' music. most of my drum and bass 'career' consisted of 'wank'. but what i came out of it thinking is that complication shouldn't be at the heart of the music i write: the more persuasive the groove and melody are, the more complicated you can be in the things that surround them without taking away from the energy at the heart of it. and, fuck, it's not like i sit around contriving these grand ideals while i'm writing music, they're things i come up with in hindsight when i'm at work and analyzing where i came from trying to make sense of it all it comes most naturally writing with the band, because we all have pretty much the same opinions on this. complication is great when you know you're doing it so you don't let it become the whole of what you're doing!

but the truth is, i like your music more than i was letting on

"complication = fear" or whatever it was, IS fucking retarded! it comes off to me like reverse elitism that's statistically decided upon once someone hears a certain number of elements that aren't conventionally arranged. it goes back to our jazz debates, where IIRC i thought we all agreed that at ANY level of complication there can be emotional connections.

i'm not saying complication = fear to do something simple in every case; sometimes, equally as much, simplicity = fear to let loose and do something crazy. to me, ideally, the two sides should be working together in perfect harmony, unbeknownst to the musician: all the way from simple stuff communicating complex emotions and styles, to complex stuff communicating simple emotions. i like the juxtaposition of the two better than either one alone.

zappa does it in a way: his lyrics are simplistic, sometimes to the point of being childish, and his references and influences are simplistic, doo-wop being a great example. the reason this doesn't win me over is that i listen to music like an idiot who doesn't understand the language, and only find my way into the complexities of a certain piece if it appeals to my idiot side enough that i want to listen to it over and over again. take away historical understanding of music and literal understanding of lyrics from zappa, and you take away the glue of simplicity that holds it together. that's why i consider it intellectual: you need to be studied in the languages of english and music to understand the framework into which it fits together. i like music that an alien invader could listen to and understand as much as i could. if that makes any sense?!?

take away historical understanding of music and literal understanding of lyrics from zappa, and you take away the glue of simplicity that holds it together.

hey, i never understood this before today.

i think i get zappa now, although i still don't like it

heh, cool man.. well, all that makes sense of course and has a lot more meaning and nuance (and is less deserving of invective) than the first hard statement. :P i was just like "come on man, you don't believe that 100% of the time, do you?"

honestly though, i don't think you need to have all those prerequisites in place to enjoy stuff like that. some people just like the overall effect of music like Zappa... or Coltrane, or anything complex. my grandparents love, say, Mozart, for instance. they might not process the notes and events in the way that they would be able to for a sugary pop ditty, but they enjoy the zoomed out, overall effect.

in other words i probably should just wear a shit-eating grin on my face and say "your reasons for disliking him are bogus"!

just kidding. i love you.

(p.s. and go listen to some straight-forward rocking instrumental shit by Zappa that could be a Led Zeppelin tune for god's sake, then get back to me)

Maybe if you guys were confident enough in your own tastes you wouldn't be offended when scart analyses them

I think Prince is cool.

Ben it's not so much that he offends us with his analysis it's just that it's nonsense.

I know music & art is subjective but surely there has to be some sort of benchmark where we can all enjoy a common ground of acknowledgement?

Like ,for instance, Prince is a very,very talented musician.

regardless of tastes U can't argue with that.

Marvin Gaye,Stevie Wonder,Jimi Hendrix,Rolling Stones,etc...

these are guys that are in that 'common ground of acknowledgement' where you have to accept they are some seriously skilled muthafeckers!

Scart's obviously just out to upset the apple cart & get our knickers in a twist,occasionaly Statto makes a valiant attempt to do the same but I know at night,when they're all alone in their rooms and getting tucked into bed they know we're right and quietly slip on Prince's 'Purple Rain' lp.

...but I know at night,when they're all alone in their rooms and getting tucked into bed they know we're right and quietly slip on Prince's 'Purple Rain' lp.

shirts vs. blouses...

Like ,for instance, Prince is a very,very talented musician.

regardless of tastes U can't argue with that.

Yngwie Malmsteen is a very, very talented guitarist.

who the feck?

Like ,for instance, Prince is a very,very talented musician.

regardless of tastes U can't argue with that.

Yngwie Malmsteen is a very, very talented guitarist.

oooh, those twiddly fingers